D&D 4E Keith Baker on 4E! (The Hellcow responds!)

[Bold or Stupid]

That's just it though. He doesn't follow the basic rules. How is a 1 HD humanoid getting a +12 modifier on his heal skill?

Human, 4 ranks in heal, Skill focus, some sort of homebrew +2/+2 Feat gives 9, +3 Wisdom Bonus. There you go +12 Healing, hell I can drop wisdom to +1 if he has a healing kit (+2 circumstance). But that is pushing the system.

For the record I agree with Mr Baker, the system saying "Just give the NPCs what they need to fulfill their story role." is a great thing to put in a system.

 

[Michele Carter]

For the record I agree with Mr Baker, the system saying "Just give the NPCs what they need to fulfill their story role." is a great thing to put in a system.

And it doesn't make the editors cry!

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

 

[Klaus]

That's just it though. He doesn't follow the basic rules. How is a 1 HD humanoid getting a +12 modifier on his heal skill?

You're kidding, right?

4 ranks +3 Wis mod +3 Skill Focus +2 masterwork healing kit.

 

[hong]

Why do NPCs need to be fully statted? So, the healer with Heal +12. Would it matter if his stats in a 3.5 adventure read:

"Healer: AC 10; HD 1d6; hp 6; Melee scalpel -1 (1d4-1, 19-20);
Important Skills: Heal +12, Knowledge (any two) +6, Sense Motive +8.
S 8 D 10 Co 11 I 15 W 17 Ch 10
Possessions: Masterwork healing kit, 30sp."

He still follows the basic rules, but I only wrote up what I need for him. If an NPC warrants full stats, he's probably important to the adventure.

Why are you buying a book full of rules, if you're not going to use those rules?

 

[Plane Sailing]

In the long run, action point effects are tied into every class, giving each character unique ways to use his action points.

This is an interesting part of Keiths statement which everyone glosses over.

Action points for extra actions is groovy, but i wonder what 'tied into class' and 'giving each character unique ways to use his action points' will look like?

Cheers

 

[IanB]

You're kidding, right?

4 ranks +3 Wis mod +3 Skill Focus +2 masterwork healing kit.

I missed the healing kit in the possessions. But that illustrates the point pretty well; in 3E you in theory have to figure out exactly what a particular NPC can get with this stat and this many ranks and these items, to get your desired result; in 4e you can just say 'he's got a +12' and ignore all that stuff. And that really does save time.

 

[VannATLC]

An NPC with Wisdom 18 and a a toolkit worth what, 250g? (Honestly, I can't remember, but its not cheap) is hardly an improvement over a level 4 npc.

WRT to the OP, I picked on the Action Points thing, but I don't think Keith is the first to mention it.

Buggered if I can remember where I saw it, though.

 

[pukunui]

This is an interesting part of Keiths statement which everyone glosses over.

Action points for extra actions is groovy, but i wonder what 'tied into class' and 'giving each character unique ways to use his action points' will look like?

Cheers

I find that to be a very intriguing statement, too. I had a feeling that they wouldn't be just for granting extra actions ... I wonder if it'll be like "gain an extra use of a /encounter or /day" ability or something. Maybe the cleric will be able to spend an action point to use Healing Word beyond his normal limit. Something like that.

 

[Klaus]

I missed the healing kit in the possessions. But that illustrates the point pretty well; in 3E you in theory have to figure out exactly what a particular NPC can get with this stat and this many ranks and these items, to get your desired result; in 4e you can just say 'he's got a +12' and ignore all that stuff. And that really does save time.

If Dm Fiat a valid answer, then why not:

"Healer: hp 6, Heal +12"

And then you ask "where is he getting that skill from?", to which I reply "+8 circumstance bonus from doing that daily, instead of adventuring".

VannATLC: IIRC, it's 50 gp. But the point is, already in 3.x you can make a low-level NPC with pretty much any skill modifier. I don't see why it has to be a big selling point for 4E.

 

[Caedrus]

Why are you buying a book full of rules, if you're not going to use those rules?

Because ALL the rules don't apply ALL the time. Sometimes you only need the NPC to have certain abilities. Why not just give them what they need? This is one of the aspects that turned me on to Savage Worlds. They specifically tell you in the rulebook "Don't follow character creation for NPC's. Just give them what you want them to have." Is it really going to affect the game if the healer who never does anything outside his shop has a +12 heal skill at first level or at 6th?