Ken Hite Re: The RPG Industry

HOwever, you could compare game design to other things than proprietory copyright. Creative Commons music for example is far closer to the OGL. As is open source programming. Both have allowed artists to reach their audience and still make a buck. Granted, it requires a fair of a rethink, but, it is still possible.

Anyway, this is way off topic. I think the point has been made that the impact of piracy is by no means a cut and dried thing. The jury is still WAY out on how much of an impact it has had.
 

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Dannyalcatraz said:
Most bands get about 3x the share of the profits from tours as compared to royalties, and even more from merchandising.

What % of total profits for a successful band actually comes from the sale of their records? I know that's a hard question as it will involve a lot of generalizations, but a ballpark figure would probably work fine. Say a band that sold 100,000 units and then had a respectable tour of just the US.

joe b.
 

What % of total profits for a successful band actually comes from the sale of their records? I know that's a hard question as it will involve a lot of generalizations, but a ballpark figure would probably work fine. Say a band that sold 100,000 units and then had a respectable tour of just the US.

A typical rookie band has a royalty rate of ¢12-15 per album sold, but there's more to it than that.

Lets assume a typical rookie band sold 100K of their debut album at $12 average price. That's $1.2M in sales, but not every dollar counts for calculating royalties. Knock $100k off of that to recoup the company's expenses for fronting the recording of the album, agent fees, and certain other fees (and there are lots of them) that reduce the amount of sales that count.

After all the fees have been deducted, their share of the royalties from those sales would be about $100,000 for the band, which must be divided up between the various band members. If that is a typical 5 piece band, that's $20K per band member...before taxes. There's a reason why so many guys in glam rock bands out of LA used to live with groupie girlfriends.

(For the record, someone like Janice Ian who started out 30 or so years ago would have had even worse contracts to deal with- things have gotten better.)

If they have a good tour on that album, each bandmember might take home between $60-100K (before taxes) from gate receipts and merchandizing.

Big established bands change those equations a great deal. A megastar might get 10x the contractual royalties a new musician would, and their merchandizing and gate receipts will be HUGE (there are some who can push their percentages of those income streams as high as 40%).

(Because of numbers like this, a big tour with several small bands is more profitable for venues and vendors than a tour with a megastar, even if both tours sell the same amount of tickets.)

There is a hidden aspect to these contracts that people don't realize- those megastars make it possible for the labels to go out and find the new blood. If someone's album goes platinum, its good news all around- everyone gets paid. However, there's a certain amount of that money that the label is going to shovel back into finding new artists or giving out advances to record albums (remember that $100k the rookies above got?) by the artists they've signed (some of which is never recovered). At some labels, that may be as much as 80% of the gross profits.

Realize also that only about 10% of a typical label's annual releases actually show a profit (major labels average a little higher, but not much- maybe 15%)- those releases basically subsidize everything else.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
A typical rookie band has a royalty rate of ¢12-15 per album sold, but there's more to it than that.

Lets assume a typical rookie band sold 100K of their debut album at $12 average price. That's $1.2M in sales, but not every dollar counts for calculating royalties. Knock $100k off of that to recoup the company's expenses for fronting the recording of the album, agent fees, and certain other fees (and there are lots of them) that reduce the amount of sales that count.

After all the fees have been deducted, their share of the royalties from those sales would be about $100,000 for the band, which must be divided up between the various band members. If that is a typical 5 piece band, that's $20K per band member...before taxes. There's a reason why so many guys in glam rock bands out of LA used to live with groupie girlfriends.

I must be misunderstanding. For the band to make 100k at $0.15 per unit they'd have to sell around 670k units, not 100k units. 100k units would only generate 15,000 for the band out of the 1.2 million total revenue.

Do you mean band gets 12-15% of the total earned as opposed to $0.12-$0.15 per unit?

If you really mean pennies per unit for the band, the system is designed to make those who don't create the material money. I suspect this is the case.

There is a hidden aspect to these contracts that people don't realize- those megastars make it possible for the labels to go out and find the new blood. If someone's album goes platinum, its good news all around- everyone gets paid. However, there's a certain amount of that money that the label is going to shovel back into finding new artists or giving out advances to record albums (remember that $100k the rookies above got?) by the artists they've signed (some of which is never recovered). At some labels, that may be as much as 80% of the gross profits.

Doesn't the internet method of distribution of new music essentially make (or will make) the previous necessity of a label scout not nearly as important? In otherwords, if an artist can put their music out while avoiding the massive overhead associated with traditional channels don't they maintain more control over their earnings?

I view it similarly to PDF publishing. Music's "entry barrier" is coming down due technology and artists will probably start to take larger and larger % of the income stream they produce while taking greater "business" responsibilities as well.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing record companies, agents, ad men, managers etc— I'm not. They can make a tremendous difference in the success (or lack of) of a band, but they look to me to be part of a system that is becoming more and more antiquated.

Realize also that only about 10% of a typical label's annual releases actually show a profit (major labels average a little higher, but not much- maybe 15%)- those releases basically subsidize everything else.

Much like Magic and D&D subsidize purchasing other products with slower turn rates for FLGS. :)

joe b.
 

I must be misunderstanding. For the band to make 100k at $0.15 per unit they'd have to sell around 670k units, not 100k units. 100k units would only generate 15,000 for the band out of the 1.2 million total revenue.
:o
Yes- you're dead right on the dollars, my error.

Remember, kiddies:

1) never do your math while sleep deprived (my Grandfather has Alzheimers- he called several times during the night to ask when he was being picked up...)

2) always check your math

3) stay away from programmable calculators for doing the simple stuff- you have less of a chance of hitting the wrong buttons and getting wonky answers.

If you really mean pennies per unit for the band, the system is designed to make those who don't create the material money.

While it is the case that the labels are in it for the money, you do have to look at the way one of these contracts is drafted. Its not all gravy. Ignoring the profits from the label's subsidiaries (which may include manufacturers, distributors, and recording studios), a label only takes about $1-3 profit per unit themselves (depending upon the contract, of course).

The label fronts the money to the band (an "advance" of $100k+) for them to record an album. That is supposed to cover everything from recording studio time ($50-500/hour), studio musician salaries, engineering, post-production, and so forth. Bands that take their sweet time in the studio often exceed their advance- which may be increased- but the advance is a loan that has to be repaid.

You want Babyface or Rik Rubin to produce your album? The label will get them if they're available, but unless you're a personal friend, you'll get charged a premium.

The artists & photographers who design the sleeves must be paid. If its a major artist or one the label thinks will become a major artist, there is an ad campaign to design and fund.

The CDs must be manufactured and shipped (one of the major bennies of direct downloads is it eliminates this cost). Some of the companies that do this are wholly owned subsidiaries of the major labels. In that case, there is a price break, but its only pennies per unit. Some CDs will be defective, stolen, broken, or used for promotional copies- that cuts into the number of "units sold" for calculating royalties.

The agent gets his 3-10%. As does the band manager. And their lawyer.

That video? It cost between $50k-1M to make.

That mansion the band stays in while recording in Beverly Hills? The limo they take to the club? The salary of the assistant whose job it is to make sure the band's bowl of M&Ms has no brown ones in it, or gets them a steak dinner at 3AM, and all the other things in the band's rider? That all comes out of the sales of the CD.

Yes, the labels make a lot of money, but a smart band can control a lot of their costs by exhibiting a little self control, and every bit they DON'T spend goes to them because everything else is set in stone. For example, smart bands get their stuff together in practice and lay their tracks down in hours or days rather than months. This saves them as much as $40K in studio time- more if they go to an inexpensive studio (hope they still sound good)... And if they spend only 60K of their 100k advance recording their album, that leftover is THEIRS.

Which is why I always tell my artists to practice practice practice (so they don't eat up studio time) and to check their egos at the studio door. If you're in a $100/hr studio and spend 5 hours arguing in the studio, you still owe those guys their $500.

Doesn't the internet method of distribution of new music essentially make (or will make) the previous necessity of a label scout not nearly as important?<snip>They can make a tremendous difference in the success (or lack of) of a band, but they look to me to be part of a system that is becoming more and more antiquated.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. With entry barriers as low as they are for music production, almost anyone can get international attention without requiring a major label... There are, however, still excellent artists out there who can barely afford an instrument to play, and don't have even the least expensive home studios. (That, too, will change with time & tech.)

And unfortunately, for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Just as its easier for the musician to reach his audience, its also easier for the pirate to steal his stuff. And unfortunately, the minor labels and self-published artists simply don't have the cash to go after the pirates directly.

Its one thing to know that a Russian website is selling your CD without permission, its quite another to be able to take legal action against them in Moscow. For the little guys, all you can do is report them to the companies that process their credit cards and watch. You won't get any money back.

Copyright infringement in the form of artists stealing songs (or portions of them) for their own use is also easier in the digital age, and filing or defending against such a suit isn't getting any cheaper, either.

At this point, the only companies that can adequately defend their artists' IP are the major labels.

Much like Magic and D&D subsidize purchasing other products with slower turn rates for FLGS.

Sorta, except with the label, the subsidy is within the company that produces the goods, but in the FLGS, the subsidy is within the company that distributes them to the end consumer.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
:o
Yes- you're dead right on the dollars, my error.

No prolems, just wanted to make sure I was understanding properly. So for a 5 man band who sold 100,000 units earning $1.2 million each band member would make $3,000 pre taxes.

The agent gets his 3-10%. As does the band manager. And their lawyer.

If I'm doing my math correctly, that means the band made 1.25% (or 0.25% per member) while the agent, manager and lawyer each made 2X to 8X more than the band (and 5X to 16X each individual band member)? No wonder creatives are closely looking at the internet's possibilities while non-creatives are trying to stop such new possibilities.

joe b.
 


If I'm doing my math correctly, that means the band made 1.25% (or 0.25% per member) while the agent, manager and lawyer each made 2X to 8X more than the band (and 5X to 16X each individual band member)? No wonder creatives are closely looking at the internet's possibilities while non-creatives are trying to stop such new possibilities.

Not quite- they get their shares out of the band's royalties- in other words, 3-10% of that 3K.
 


But, Dannyalcatraz, as you say yourself, the band makes far more money doing live shows than it does from albums. Pirated CD's does not equal a dip in attendance at a live show. Piracy hurts the labels far more than it hurts the artist.

Or, am I missing something?
 

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