Kenzer & Co Dragon Ad - A RANT

[Psion]

I've commented on this before. Though I have not been spun up by it as some, I still find it pretty annoying.

It *is* as "official" as Greyhawk or the Realms.

Okay. That doesn't explain Kenzer's logic. FR is official; that means I can use everything from FR in Greyhawk or Kalamar, right?

I don't think so. Each GM is master of his own game, and unlike Kenzer claims, I don't think it is going to have a whole lot of weight in tournaments, either. At best, it seems to me that Kenzer is trying to prey on the "official or nothing" mentality some subsets of gamers have, a contemptable malady that IMO deserves no encouragement.

As I said in the main forum, the Kalamar PHB will have the same agravation for me that Ravenloft had: NO OGC.

AFAICT, the "official" status has one capacity and one only: marketing branding.

 

[Orclicker]

Kalamar review process

Let me introduce myself, my name is Andy Ferguson and I am a freelance writer for Kenzer, so far I have written one book for them, the Villain Design Handbook, and also have a contributing writer credit in the Kalamar Player's Guide.

To the best of my understanding the comment about the material in the Kalamar Player's Guide being official wasn't meant to say that non official material is junk, just that the Kalamar material has to go through the most exacting selection process in the 3E/d20 genre. Not only does Kalamar material go through Kenzer's in-house approval and editing standards but every word and every image also has to be approved by WotC, twice, once for preliminary design and once for the finished product. This means that by the time a Kalamar book gets to a game store near you it has had about twice as much editing and/or revisions as any other 3E/d20 book, even the core books!

Now, by no means am I saying that other D20 products are of lesser status. Only that I have bought a few books that looked really good until I have had the chance to read them, at which point I was disappointed because the small production team of often inexperienced game designers missed a few (sometimes glaring) mistakes that would have been caught by having an independent reviewer.

Well I hope that this explains why that was put into the ad.

Andy

 

[Mark Plemmons]

Yikes! I turn my back for two minutes....

I don't know that there's anything more I can say that our supporters haven't said already, but I'll try to give some general comments...

Yes, the Player's Guide ads do tout it as an "official" D&D product.

This is NOT to imply that non-official product is automatically inferior. Obviously, that's not the case.

So what's the point of emphasizing that the Kingdoms of Kalamar products are "official?"

Well, all the art and the text go through multiple approval stages both internally at KenzerCo and at WotC. That means that anything WotC doesn't feel is appropriate under their brand will not be approved. (So there won't be any 'over-the-top' HackMaster style in Kalamar. We're easily able to keep the two products separate.)

Of course, we want our products to be the best out there (just like every other company). We stand by the quality of our products, regardless of whether they carry the D&D logo or not. We're not relaxing on our heels, counting on the D&D logo to support our sales. We're trying to make the best products ever! Are we succeeding (or at least on our way there)? That depends on who you ask. Everyone has different tastes.

Being official is also an extra level of 'mental security' (or whatever you want to call it) for those fans that trust the people at WotC, and also for those that only buy products with the D&D logo. (If you don't trust WotC, it won't make a difference either way.)

The main thing I'd ask is that you judge our products and their quality for their content and quality. If you don't like the Kingdoms of Kalamar, that's cool (as long as you're gaming something). Like I said, everyone has different tastes.

Just don't be turned off by something as innocent as wording in an ad, or make wild assumptions based on rumors and speculations.

Okay? Okay.



Mark Plemmons
Kenzer and Company
www.kenzerco.com

 

[der_kluge]

Mark, thanks for your response.

Might I make a humble suggestion? Given what you've said, it might make more sense in your ad to say something like this :

"The best part is that every word is OFFICIAL Dungeons & Dragons. All art and content is reviewed by Wizards of the Coast, so I can be sure that it is balanced, solid, and like all D20 products, is perfectly compatible with the game I know and love! Bonus!"

As it is, it seems to imply that KoK feats, spells, etc, might show up in Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms products, or vice-versa, which is probably something that would never happen.

 

[Strongheart]

As it is, it seems to imply that KoK feats, spells, etc, might show up in Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms products, or vice-versa, which is probably something that would never happen.

The way I look at it is that WotC will stand behind all the information for GH, FR, and KoK equally. And that all that information is assured to be balance with each other. So that means everything for all those settings can be freely interchanged and assured equal WotC quality. Will they be? Most likely not. But not because they can't work balance-wise. But more because it doesn't fit with the way the DM runs his/her setting.

It's like this, I have no fear that FR feats and such aren't balanced compared to KoK feats and such. So I will allow them as long as the flavor of them fits with the way I run my game. But I will want to playtest stuff from other d20 Publishers first before I allow it in my game. I don't feel I need to do that with KoK stuff. That, to me, the difference to be between "official" and not.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Mark, thanks for your response.

Might I make a humble suggestion? Given what you've said, it might make more sense in your ad to say something like this :

"The best part is that every word is OFFICIAL Dungeons & Dragons. All art and content is reviewed by Wizards of the Coast, so I can be sure that it is balanced, solid, and like all D20 products, is perfectly compatible with the game I know and love! Bonus!"

As it is, it seems to imply that KoK feats, spells, etc, might show up in Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms products, or vice-versa, which is probably something that would never happen.

I am not trying to stir the hornet's nest, but I really think that most of this is much ado about nothing.

I don't see why their advertisement needs to include "and like all D20 products" as they have specifically paid fees to use the DnD logo and aren't really "D20" when it comes right down to it. Yes, they are compatible with other D20 products, but isn't that a given? When it comes right down to it, this is a "Dungeons and Dragons" product with no OGC and not a D20 product that MUST have some OGC. Some people might even prefer that distinction, gee no way to win there...

I am not all that fond of their advertisement myself, but so what? I only recently looked at some of the Kalamar DnD products and I have to say that what I have seen so far is very well done. A change in their advertising would not have altered the time I looked at their products, nor would it change my decisions. So, for me, advertising is simply not a factor.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Mark, thanks for your response.

and like all D20 products, is perfectly compatible with the game I know and love! Bonus!"

I have my strong doubts that all d20 products are perfectly compatible with the game I know and love!

 

[Noah Kolman]

Hey everyone,

I think Mark and others have answered most of the questions already, so I won't repeat what's already been said. die_kluge, you have made a good suggestion, and I will pass it around to the appropriate people in the office.

What I would like to add is one of the reasons the infamous line was included. I wrote the original text for the ad (though I don't remember if that was my line or was edited in later), and I had a different idea I was trying to get across. More than the fact that the player's guide was approved by KenzerCo and WoTC, I was trying to emphasize the style in which it was written. We kept the rules material in the players guide as generic as possible for the most part. Sure the feats, spells, prestige classes etc. all have Kalamar names, but our goal was to make the rules portions as independent as possible so that, like a d20 product, they could easily be transported to another game or campaign world. Some material will be harder to convert than others, especially the cleric related material that depends on the Kalamar specific deities, but we have provided a god conversion guide that should help you switch between Kalamar gods and FR and GH gods and vice versa. Our goal was to create a book that would appeal to Kalamar players by providing more background and player information, but would still have generic enough rule information to appeal to any D&D player who might want more "crunchy bits."

I didn't mean to offend anyone with what I may or may not have written. I hope you accept my apologies, and will judge the book by its contents.

 

[DwarvenBrew]

Someone should take the Kenzer guys into a back alley and beat them with a stick for that comment. It just REALLY rubbed me the wrong way (if you can't already tell).

This tone of this thread REALLY shocked me, and not in a good way.

 

[kenjib]

This tone of this thread REALLY shocked me, and not in a good way.

Me too, and it wouldn't really have bothered me if it hadn't come from an industry professional.