Ki and Elemental - Whatever

[Aristotle]

I was really hoping for a spirit power source. If Ki or Primal ends up fitting the bill, I'll be happy. If not... I'll be hoping a high quality 3rd party picks it up. Otherwise I'm not so big on Ki. Martial is good enough, since the high level martial powers are supernatural enough to take care of a lot of the wuxia feel. I still think "mind over body" monks would've rocked as a psionic class, and I'm a fan of both wuxia and psionics.

Elementalist is the bigger problem for me. I have to see what sort of classes they offer. Maybe it won't be as cster heavy as I imagine, and will instead make use of the elements in more creative ways... because the bulk of what Wizards do is already pretty elemental in my opinion.

I would've dug an artifice power source for the steam-punk elements that tend to catch my eye in both of the announced campaign settings as well as a number of others. Maybe it's just too general to be a power source though. *shrug*

 

[kennew142]

I don't think ki is necessary, but I can see why the designers include it. I'm still going to have to design my own martial arts type class. I'm so tired of being told to play Kwai Chang Kaine, when I really want to play Billy Jack!

 

[LordDreadman]

As the old saying goes, noone's forcing you to include it in your games.

This is true, and, until recently, I was a proponent of the same philosophy. However, now that we know that there are only so many power sources to be released (in all likelihood), it hurts me to see a power source that could so EASILY be fit into the Martial Power Source be religated to a seperate one. Especially when I have my favorite power sources that I want released.

Seriously, I have no problem with Ki, but I already was banking on the idea that Martial Characters could be Jet Li and Jackie Chan. Actually, I was hoping to make a few Martial Characters MARTIAL Artists (as it were). Sorry, but it still strikes me as a bit silly to seperate the two, when WotC has already convinced everyone that Martial = Action Hero. Now it just feels like Martial = Western Action Hero and Ki = Eastern Action Hero. They are quite similar, actually. (Watch "Sin City" or "Spider Man" and tell me these guys can't jump and dodge).

Anyways, there does seem to be one good thing about this:
If ....
Martial = Body
Psi = Mind
Ki = Animus
Then ....
Incarnum = Soul (?)

I mean, they have the rest of them covered. It would be a bit odd not to include the last one just because 3E's version of it was slightly unpopular (I loved it, on the other hand).

Well, here's hopin'.

Yours,
Lord Dreadman

 

[Rechan]

This is true, and, until recently, I was a proponent of the same philosophy. However, now that we know that there are only so many power sources to be released (in all likelihood), it hurts me to see a power source that could so EASILY be fit into the Martial Power Source be religated to a seperate one.

Thing is, there's so much argument about the Monk and how it could EASILY fit into the Martial, Divine, Psionic, or Ki power source. Everybody has their own vision of the monk.

I myself am hoping there is in fact a brawler class in the Martial sourcebook. Or at least, some unarmed abilities.

 

[cdrcjsn]

I don't have the DMG yet, but from various sources, we know that the following planes exist:

Astral (home of gods)
Feywild
Shadowfell
Prime Material
Elemental Chaos (home of demons and primordials)

Those seem to fit naturally into the following power sources:

Divine - Astral
Arcane - Feywild
Shadow - Shadowfell
Primal - Prime Material
Elemental - Elemental Chaos

That leaves Martial, Psionic and Ki left for us to figure out where their power source comes from.

Since Martial = physical training and Psionic is mental, it seems reasonable to arrange them as so:

Mind - Psionic
Body - Martial
Soul - Ki

Dunno. Anyone have the DMG and can say what's up?

 

[Rechan]

cdrcjsn, you forgot the Far Realms.

 

[Rechan]

Also, I don't really get where people are assuming Feywild=Arcane. Really, what about the Feywild is Arcane, aside from the Eladrin?

Among othe rthings, stuff like Dryads and Treants seem native to the Feywild. That right there seems a good candidate for the Feywild=Primal.

 

[Aristotle]

I think symmetry with the planes is unlikely. It would make perfect sense in previous editions, but this crew doesn't seem so stuck on filling grids and matching things up.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hmmm. Let's put it another way.

Martial = Batman. Pure physical training, no supernatural powers.

Ki = Any Street Fighter character. Physical training with supernatural martial arts powers.

Psionic = Professor X. Ultimate mental power, no physical ability to speak of.

I think the three power sources are distinct enough that they can support very different kinds of characters.

I'm not seeing it.

Personally to me it looks like the power sources got mixed up with themes at some point halfway through development.

Sources
Martial - raw physical abilities
Arcane - pseudoscientific manipulation of reality
Divine - intervention from gods

Source/Theme
Primal - inborn non-martial stuff/forces of nature

Themes
Shadow - arcane/divine doing stuff that manipulates shadows
Elemental - arcane/divine doing stuff that manipulates elements
Psionics - arcane doing stuff with peoples minds
Ki - asian grab bag of powers

Sources are where your powers come from, not how they look, sound, feel or what they do.

Primal is a source if you view it as being "inborn abilities not covered by the first three". The model of psionics where they're inborn and natural abilities, not taught and trained. The same sort of thing for the natural-gifted-no-schooling-required wizard (sorceror). I can even sort of see how barbarian fits here (although perhaps as a berserker instead), if his abilities are purely based around how angry he is, rather than just making him a primitive fighter.

The druid shapeshifting stuff fits in there too, assuming it's "release your inner animal" rather than "here's the mystical secrets to shifting form", at which point it becomes arcane or divine. Nature manipulation is arcane or divine.

Shadow doesn't really stand on it's own as a power source though - arcane and primal already cover schooled and natural manipulation of reality, divine covers greater beings and higher powers. If shadow is a source, then so should whatever powers a warlock makes pacts with.

Elemental. I guess this sort of works if 'divine' only applies to gods. The same "whatever powers a warlock makes pacts with should be a source" works here too though.

Ki. This is really either the martial source, or the martial source + the arcane source. Hidden techniques to throw fireballs? Sounds like wizardry to me. Hidden techniques to kick the crap out of people? Oh look, that's martial! I expect to see vast swarms of dodgy classes using the Ki source as an excuse to have everything.

 

[Flobby]

I was assuming that ki would be split between martial and psionics, but it does make sense to have a separate power source now that I think about it. There could easily be martial artist-ish classes for each source. A brawler guy for martial, a dragonball/wuxia balancing on bamboo jumping on water guy for ki, and a mind-over-matter guy for psionics.

I don't think ki really means soul though. It doesn't in Japanese anyway. It means more like mental energy.

As for elemental.... I can't imagine what kind of classes they could squeeze out of it besides a wizard guy.