Kickass ways to use psionics

[Shard O'Glase]

IMO not many people argue that the psychic warrior is weak, it gets d8 hp, bonus feats close to the fighters, access to cool psychic feats, powers, martial weapons all armor, and mid bab. That's a really solid package.

The psion on the other hand is a bit weak. Even the telepath which is probably the best of the psions is fairly weak. A sorcerer focussed on enchantments would in most situations be flat out better, because he could cast more powers unless the psion stuck with its weakest powers for lots of lesser effects, the sorcerers enchantments would be close to the power of the psions, loosing out on a couple cool higher level dominates, mind switch, and acess to some powers one level ealier

But the psion is almost completely stuck just on enchantments, and therefor has gaping weaknesses when facing undead, cosntructs, those protected by a simple protection v evil etc, where as the sorcerer can take a couple really solid non-enchantment powers which would barely weaken its enchantment focus and greatly strengthen its ability to fight enchantment immune or resistent foes, and provide other great utility to the party.

One of the biggest boons for the telepath is schism, which unlike haste is a personal power so can be made persistent. Or its other great powers like mind switch. The telepath gains 4 skill points that are actually on point to the character class unlike the sorcerer, and the psion can cast in armor. But when it comes to spellcasting power the psion is more on par with the bard, than with the other casters, wiz/sor/druids/clerics just blow the psion out of the water over all, with the psion maybe getting a slight edge in their specialty. But considering how focussed the psion is and its role as a primary spellcaster it should be a lot better in its specialty and not just slightly.

This isn't to say someone can't build an play a effective psion, and certain combos can be powerful etc. But quite frankly someone can build and play an effective expert, but that doesn't change the fact that the expert is just a sub-par rogue.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Psions ARE a bit tricky. They really vary by discipline; I guess you could think of them as being seven different classes: specialist in each, or a generalist (who spreads his stat points around to get all the good low-level stuff).

Psychometabolism powers? Great for a multiclasser. Any fighter-type would love a couple levels for things like Lesser Body Adjustment.

Psychokinesis? Nice selection of spells, including the only ranged damage powers I'd ever use (the Concussion and Biocurrent lines)

Psychoportation? A bit too limited, IMHO, but it's a great secondary discipline.

Metasensory? Well, I think they end up specializing in divinations too much, and that doesn't leave much room for combat stuff.

Metacreativity? Well, I'm biased because my character is a Shaper. Astral Constructs are more flexible than Summon Monster. They get lots of utility powers I like (Fabricate at 4!). And, as everyone knows, the single best attack power (Mass Cocoon).

And then there's Telepathy. That's a topic all to itself.

Now, all that aside, I still think the Psion is underpowered. According to the PsiHB, one of the "balancing factors" for the Psion, the thing that supposedly makes them equal to a Sorcerer, even with their lower spells/day: access to Psionic Feats. But, what's the point of having access to all those cool Psionic Feats, like Inertial Armor or Speed of Thought, when you need most of your Feat slots for metamagic and/or item creation stuff?
One suggestion someone made that I liked, was this: Wizards get free Feats at 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20, but these can only be used for metamagic/item feats.
How about for Psions, give them free feats at those same levels, but they can only be used for Psionic feats?

 

[Xarlen]

I remember way back, there was a Psi-warrior thread.

One of the highlights was pulling a Psi-warrior Polymorphing into a Troll, while whipping out Claws of the Vampire and Bio-feedback.

Or the ever popular Stone Giant.

 

[Jeph]

Just thinking out loud, but I'm relatively sure that a Nomad 10 / Metamind 10 would kick major @ss from here to nantucket. And for those of you who live in Ireland, read "from here to North Carolina."

The thing is, this Metamind doesn't really give sheeat about Powers: they're an archer.

JUST THINK: with the kind of Power Points that Metaminds get, combined with TPd Metaphysical Weapon, TPd Animal Affinity, Psionic Shot, and FELL SHOT, far shot, and a Distance weapon, you have sniper at 1000 yards. Let me work this out a bit . . .

Assume a Dex of 34. Base of 43 PP from Psion, 80 from Metamind. 15 from Inner Str. 124 from ability. 5 from Power Psicrystal, 100 from Dull Grey Ioun Stones D ), 17 from some dude's Crystal Capacitor. Total of 384 PP.

Okay, that's like 60 touch-attack-+1d4damage attacks in a day. fun fun fun for everyone, except the guy in +5 full plate with a +5 large shield who gets shot 60 times because his AC is now worth approximately nothing. It's like the Brilliant Energy enhancement, but twice as good. Sheesh, this feat is BROKEN.

Okay, assume you did this with a Psi War instead, and made him specialize in unarmed combat. WHOA! that's like 10 times as good! I believe there's a smack like that in SOS . . . I really don't know why people think psionics are underpowered.

 

[zorlag]

haha

100 Dull gray ioun stones? Sorry but where in the heck are you going to find 100 burned out ioun stones for every character. Just forget that

Anyway, using ITCK, revised PrC's by Bruce Cordell (Go to montecook.com and download) and Mind's Eye (WotC's own psionic article series) goes long way in balancing psion with it's arcane counterparts.

Z.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Metacreativity? Well, I'm biased because my character is a Shaper. Astral Constructs are more flexible than Summon Monster. They get lots of utility powers I like (Fabricate at 4!). And, as everyone knows, the single best attack power (Mass Cocoon).

Shapers are hands down my favorite and I think astral constructs are the coolest powers in the game. Yet they are massively less flexible than summon monster. Sure I can design fairly flexible brawlers, but that doesn't mean they are flexible over all. The summon monster list gives you acess to creatures immune to every element, creatures than can tunnel, teleport, heal, etc. And that's at relatively low levels, at the high end it isn't even close you can summon creatues that cast spells like cleics of 12+level, who get a heal/blade barrier 1/day etc. Minds eye theater helped a bit in this reguard making the AC a even more flexible brawler, but they stil foolishly didn't give teleport, tunneling, and a wider range of powers.

Even making the most vicious bralwer you can with AC your edge over SM in straight up fights is fairly small and even underpowered at some levels where SM have a widely divergent range of CR monsters, and outside of a brawl the SM spells are just massively more varied.

I may not be able to custom design SM monsters but the range avaialble easily dwarfs the flexibility available to the psion with AC. It's kinda sad SM spells are slightly weak, the AC powers are even weaker.

 

[Brekki]

We also use the system where skills like psicraft/spellcraft, remove view/scry, use psionic device/use magic device are the same.

Using three feats and a level of psion to get access to "free" healing is definately not the way for my psychic warrior, even if it would only take a 2 on a d20 (walking around with str 32 in combat).

Claws of the Vampire are way better, even without a grafted weapon. With an Amulet of Mighty Fists and Bracers of Striking with some cool ability they rock

In combination with Improved Biofeedback, my current character (Ran1/PsW10) is the only partymember that has survived the campaign, with 11 deaths in 13 adventures so far.

He has only gone down in combat ONCE, and that was after grappling a huge red dragon (he has Improved Grapple from OA), the DM rolled a 2, I rolled a 20. After that the dragon was so pissed, he used all of his attacks for two rounds on me, and 150+ damage/round was a little to much

 

[Spatzimaus]

Shapers are hands down my favorite and I think astral constructs are the coolest powers in the game. Yet they are massively less flexible than summon monster.

Your point about the immunities and spell-like abilities is well taken. You CAN summon monsters with all kinds of strange abilities. But, most of these also have corresponding weaknesses. Maybe you get a vulnerability to an element, maybe it's just low combat stats.

The thing I love about the Astral Constructs is that they're tunable. Let's say my usual combat strategy is to use AC6 to summon 1d3 level 5s, and let's say I end up with 2 of them. I might have one be a flier, and the other not. If flying wasn't effective last time, I can make a pet that's the same in every way but trades that one ability for something else. I don't need to go through the list thinking "hmm, which of these fly?"

The other nice thing is which list everything goes on. List A includes flying and swimming, which means even the dinkyest AC can have those abilities. That was always my biggest headache with the Summon line; sure, I could get a monster with immunity to fire, but what about immunity to fire AND can fly, AND fits my alignment?

It really helps, though, if you use the Mind's Eye section on AC feats. The expanded list of abilities (and the Constructor PrC) really help for this. Takes a Feat or two, but well worth the cost. In fact, with these Feats, I'd say Astral Constructs can compete with Telepaths for best psionic offense strategy.

Other advantages:
> They're constructs, not sentient creatures, so they do exactly what you say with no alignment issues. I've seen enough RBDMs use this one against Wizards and Druids.
> Did I mention they're constructs? With all of those construct abilities, like immunity to crits/mind control/sneak attack? It's one of the more useful types out there. Okay, so you can't heal them without the Repair Light Damage line of spells (T&B), but still.
> Maximize Power (or Fortify). They have a LOT of variable effects to maximize. Since Summon Monster summons a creature from another plane, it wouldn't make sense for Maximize Spell to give them max HP. But ACs are a different issue.

What I also like are the Astral Tasker spells (see Mind's Eye again). Can't fight, but they last 1 hour per level and carry your stuff for you. Or, use them to set off traps, for example. At higher levels they can do Craft skills for you, too.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Your point about the immunities and spell-like abilities is well taken. You CAN summon monsters with all kinds of strange abilities. But, most of these also have corresponding weaknesses. Maybe you get a vulnerability to an element, maybe it's just low combat stats.

The thing I love about the Astral Constructs is that they're tunable. Let's say my usual combat strategy is to use AC6 to summon 1d3 level 5s, and let's say I end up with 2 of them. I might have one be a flier, and the other not. If flying wasn't effective last time, I can make a pet that's the same in every way but trades that one ability for something else. I don't need to go through the list thinking "hmm, which of these fly?"

The other nice thing is which list everything goes on. List A includes flying and swimming, which means even the dinkyest AC can have those abilities. That was always my biggest headache with the Summon line; sure, I could get a monster with immunity to fire, but what about immunity to fire AND can fly, AND fits my alignment?

It really helps, though, if you use the Mind's Eye section on AC feats. The expanded list of abilities (and the Constructor PrC) really help for this. Takes a Feat or two, but well worth the cost. In fact, with these Feats, I'd say Astral Constructs can compete with Telepaths for best psionic offense strategy.

Other advantages:
> They're constructs, not sentient creatures, so they do exactly what you say with no alignment issues. I've seen enough RBDMs use this one against Wizards and Druids.
> Did I mention they're constructs? With all of those construct abilities, like immunity to crits/mind control/sneak attack? It's one of the more useful types out there. Okay, so you can't heal them without the Repair Light Damage line of spells (T&B), but still.
> Maximize Power (or Fortify). They have a LOT of variable effects to maximize. Since Summon Monster summons a creature from another plane, it wouldn't make sense for Maximize Spell to give them max HP. But ACs are a different issue.

What I also like are the Astral Tasker spells (see Mind's Eye again). Can't fight, but they last 1 hour per level and carry your stuff for you. Or, use them to set off traps, for example. At higher levels they can do Craft skills for you, too.

Well while SM do have corresponding weaknesses sometimes since I choose which thing I'm ging to summon in each encounter it rarely is an issue. And the ones with low combat stats you usually don't summon to fight but to tunnel through the wall for you or something else.

And while ACs are tunable the wide variety of SM makes it fairly tunable itself. ACs are focussed on mellee combat which is cool the thing is SM at quite a few elvels has high CR monsters made for a fight. The giant croc, dire bear etc combat power can't be duplicated by ACs at the same elvel.(levle 3 AC still have 10hp they were on something there)

Being constructs they do have some valuable abilities, but fiendish/celestial is fairly solid in itself, and they all get one big boost that constructs don't CON. The HP of constructs without boosting is really weak(minds eye helped a lot here)but still a level 6 AC gets around mid 60's hp where the dire bear is over 100, that is a huge HPand combat diffeence.

I'm not sure about maximize or fortify the HP of a AC, even if it did work generaly just summoning the higher level AC would net you close to as many HP, and enough other stuff not to amke it worth it.

Astral taskers are cool though. That was my favorite minds eye yet, really helped the shaper which I love. I jsut hope I get to play again(instead of dming) sometime so I can play one.

 

[Spatzimaus]

And while ACs are tunable the wide variety of SM makes it fairly tunable itself. ACs are focussed on mellee combat which is cool the thing is SM at quite a few elvels has high CR monsters made for a fight.

Ironically, I've found the opposite; Summon Monster has more brute-force melee combat (like you pointed out, they have a big HP advantage), but far less variety. I mean, looking at the table, there are only maybe 3 creatures per alignment per spell level. That doesn't give you too much choice. A friend of mine played a Wizard who used SM a lot, and it was almost always the same..."Dire Bear, Dire Bear, Dire Bear... maybe a Formian this time... Dire Bear..."

(levle 3 AC still have 10hp they were on something there)

No kidding. Level 3s have too few HPs. Level 4s only get one Table 2 ability. My character pretty much jumped straight from 2s to 5s.

It's the size category. 1-3 are Medium, then they go Large, and it makes all the difference.

Being constructs they do have some valuable abilities, but fiendish/celestial is fairly solid in itself

I'd still rather have Construct. Too many celestial/fiendish abilities scale with HD (their DR, SR, resistances), so until you get to the highest summons you're not gaining a huge amount. And, being totally immune to all the unusual stuff (poisons, mind-affecting spells, critical hits, etc.) to me is much stronger; I can use spells to protect them from the other stuff.

I'm not sure about maximize or fortify the HP of a AC, even if it did work generaly just summoning the higher level AC would net you close to as many HP, and enough other stuff not to amke it worth it.

One: it does work, AFAIK, cuz I think Piratecat did it when the Trillith killed two of his players with maximized constructs. Since they were betatesting the psionics rules at the time I'm guessing that's how it works. Besides, it makes sense.

Two: metamagic works differently for psions than for other classes; instead of "must use high-level spell slot" it's "total cost must be less than or equal to your caster level". My character took a PrC that continued to raise his manifester level without giving higher-level spell slots. So, at level 20 I might only be able to cast 7th-level powers (Mass Cocoon!), but I'll be able to throw a lot of metamagic on.

Three: I didn't take each AC spell. Just three of them so far; any more would be a waste of slots. So, maybe I'd prefer an AC7 to a double-fortified AC5, but I don't know the AC7 power.

But overall you're right, you're better off just summoning a bigger AC (until you hit level 20 and can Fortify AC9)

Astral taskers are cool though. That was my favorite minds eye yet, really helped the shaper which I love. I jsut hope I get to play again(instead of dming) sometime so I can play one.

They're fun. I summon a Tasker 1 every day to be my assistant; I call him "Spot". Also, notice that taskers get DR and such; they're surprisingly survivable.

The one really upsetting thing for me was the Shadow Mind. I look at the class, and think, "This is perfect! It's exactly the sort of character I wanted to make." Until I see the part where all items they make are Subpsionic items. Since my character makes a living running a magic shop, that wouldn't work.