Killed lately?

[EricNoah]

So, would you chalk that up to stupidity, bad luck or something else?

Probably more due to law of averages. Long high-level combat + advanced balors + vorpal weapons = someone's gonna get his head chopped off. That someone was me.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I find it easier to accidentally kill players in the new edition, especially if they're facing NPC's built as competently as they are. "Well, he uses his wand of metamagic to maxmize it and his sudden empower to make it more painful...."

 

[Old One]

Definitely the case in my experience.

In earlier editions PCs of 7th level+ could rely upon the hp buffer to keep them alive and after a few rounds of combat (1d8 damage, 1d10 damage, 1d8+2 damage) they decide to retreat. In 3e creatures can do 2d10+7 - critical hit! 4d10+17 and the PC has gone from fighting fit through dying to decapitated in one blow.

In early editions it was a rare beast that did 4d10 damage, now most of the mid-high level challenges will do far more than 22 average damage in a melee round. hp have increased somewhat but nowhere nearly as quickly as damage output.

I've probably killed 10x, 20x the number of PCs in 3e as in previous editions.

That's 'cuz you are a big meanie !

I think the order of lethality goes:

• 1E: C'mon...1st level magic-users with 2 hit points? A cat scratch could kill them! I remember going through 3-4 PCs per session back in good ol' days. Fortunately, low-level PCs where so cookie-cutter that you could just scratch off the name at the top, re-roll the hit points and be on your merry way - or, as we did once after the 2nd TPK of the night, pass your character sheet to the person sitting to your left for re-naming and playing (kinda of like AD&D Hearts). This was exacerbated by the plethora of random monster tables...Gee, guys, I am sorry the Wyvern-mounted hill giant just squished your 2nd level characters, but that's what I rolled on the wandering monster table!
• 3.xE: Low-level PCs have much more staying power, but, as others have said, getting critted by a power-attacking orc with a greataxe is gonna hurt. The CR/EL system is a wonderful creation (especially if you are using the modified Grim Tales version), but it still relys on a judicious DM eye to avoiding over-challenging PCs. One thing very true about 3.x is that one bad round (from the PCs perspective) often turns the battle...3.x tends to be very unforgiving that way.
• 2.xE: Many of the critters where still stuck in the 1E days, while PCs were taking big steps forward in survivability (and munchkinism, towards the end). Implementing many of the Powers and Options rules made PCs near unkillable by "appropriate challenges" unless the DM doubled the numbers of everything.

One other thought is that 3.xE - due to the tactical nature of play (assuming you are using battlemat/minis) - is extremely unforgiving to "stupid" play. Making continual sub-optimal tactical choices will quickly get a player killed if the DM doesn't pull punches. In 1E, the low-level plate-armored fighter could stride into the midst of 20 kobolds without fear of getting scratched. Do that in 3.xE and the kobolds are having fighter soup (not withstanding power attack and cleave).

~ OO

 

[diaglo]

OD&D(1974)

roll for hps at lvl 1

0hp = dead


= many hundreds of dead PCs.

 

[Henry]

OK, may take:

In some respects it's MORE lethal; you have monsters able to do obscene amounts of damage outright, you have templates, undeas with so many hit dice they can't be turned. etc.

On the other hand, it's LESS lethal, when taking into account "sudden death" effects. There are far fewer "save or die" traps and effects. In old games, you'd see something like, "...Count to 10. If all players aren't out of a given killing zone, they are DEAD." In new games, even a save doesn't necessarily mean auto-death; hold person gives a round-by-round save now; effects that transform you don't have system shock anymore; massive damage save is I think an option in the current rules, but I"m not sure. In other words, if something kills you under 3E, it's more likely to do it with overwhelming force and a to-hit roll, rather than a save-or-die effect.

 

[Old One]

OK, may take:

On the other hand, it's LESS lethal, when taking into account "sudden death" effects. There are far fewer "save or die" traps and effects. In old games, you'd see something like, "...Count to 10. If all players aren't out of a given killing zone, they are DEAD." In new games, even a save doesn't necessarily mean auto-death; hold person gives a round-by-round save now; effects that transform you don't have system shock anymore; massive damage save is I think an option in the current rules, but I"m not sure. In other words, if something kills you under 3E, it's more likely to do it with overwhelming force and a to-hit roll, rather than a save-or-die effect.

Hehe - 10th level PC bitten by a 1/2-HD giant centipede, blows saving throw, keels over dead - doesn't get any better than that! Man, I miss 1E !

~ OO

 

[billd91]

I think the tendencies that contribute to 3E's decreased lethality balance with the ones that make it more lethal.
Yes, there are fewer insta-kill poisons and things out there (as well as PC-grudge-killing items that sprinkled the 1st ed DMG), and there are more useful guidelines for building encounters that aren't TPK-inducers. But due to the changes in crit rules (there ARE some now), stat bonuses, and saving throws, PCs can also be surprisingly brittle, even at higher levels.
I think it tends to even out in the wash.

 

[diaglo]

I think it tends to even out in the wash.

my hat of washing knows no limits

diaglo "these are meant to be pink" Ooi

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I haven't killed off any characters in a long time. I don't think it has much to do with edition, though. I game less than I used to, and my gaming group is smaller but more experienced.

If I had to chart character-death in campaigns, I'd say that I saw the most character deaths in OD&D and 1e. The most inter-PC conflict (which didn't necessarily lead to death) went on in 2e.

 

[Victim]

I agree that it's pretty even. Earlier editions had more save or die effects and arbitrary slayings. In 3e however, damage generally escalates faster than defenses so there's little need for mechanisms that bypass defenses to maintain lethality.