D&D 5E Killing a Teammate

[Rya.Reisender]

Weird, I thought I read somewhere in the rules that if a stat becomes 0, the character dies.

Also, it wouldn't be too unreasonable for an Int 0-3 character to behave like a wild animals and start attacking the PCs. Reason enough for the PCs to kill it off. Not to mention saving him/her from the disgrace. That's not too evil aligned.

Other options (taken from AL rules) would also be paying the cost for the restoration service (still cheaper than raise dead) or if the character is a member of the faction he could also ask for faction charity from level 1 to 4.

 

[Mirtek]

If you don't want a convenient cure to show up and also don't want to see the character killed, have them stumble upon some friendly snirvneblin who agree to take the character back to their City. While they can't cure him there, at least they will spoon-feed him and change his diapers for the rest of his sorry life.

So the group is rid of the character, the player can bring a New one and the PC doesn't have to die (although if enough of him is still left inside the lobotomized shell he might wish he would)

 

[Unwise]

I'd insist OOC that anybody kill my character in such a circumstance. Very few, if any, of my characters would leave their friends to live out the rest of their lives as drooling vegetables, even if they were not in a dangerous area. If you are in the underdark, I think the coup de grace almost goes without saying. I'd question the resolve or motivations of any paladin that did NOT do it.

Do characters in the game think in terms of "well, we just need to kill enough goblins to get six more levels so we can cure them..." do they even know that there is a cure? Do they have any reasonable belief that they will someday possess it? It seems a little gamey to lean heavily on OOC game mechanics to determine whether or not an in character action is moral or reasonable.

Simply asking the DM if he wants the character kept alive to allow for some Deus Ex Machina to swoop in and save the day is not an unreasonable course of action. You want it to be fun for the other player to, if they have a great time playing a vegetable, who are we to stop them. Too bad if the other players' heroic fantasies don't involve diapers, feeding tubes and changing bed sore pads.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

crazy

It feels like it would be a little too weirdly convenient to just happen to find something like that right when they need it. Wouldn't that seem metagamey in itself? They're currently in the Underdark, so I can't think of a good reason anything there would be helpful.

My problem is that her character's still alive, so she shouldn't be making a new character. I don't think it's unreasonable to only allow a player to have one character at a time. I mean, it kind of sucks for her, but that's the consequence of failing the saving throw. Letting her character die feels kind of the same as letting a character die because you rolled bad stats. It's not trusting the dice to make a good story.

so what do you expect the player to do? What do you think those levels of play will mean, and if the player sits role playing an avocado for 2 months, then when they are restored will they be equal level to the other players?

 

[Maxperson]

My problem is that her character's still alive, so she shouldn't be making a new character. I don't think it's unreasonable to only allow a player to have one character at a time. I mean, it kind of sucks for her, but that's the consequence of failing the saving throw. Letting her character die feels kind of the same as letting a character die because you rolled bad stats. It's not trusting the dice to make a good story.

The game is about her having fun, not about it "sucking for her." You made a mistake here and used an Intellect Devourer in a place where they couldn't get help if it went badly for someone. It's on you to fix your mistake and let her have fun. You can do as has been suggested and put help close by, or you can let her make another character and have the old one dragged around as a vegetable until help can be reached. Once the her former PC is helped, you could give her the choice to continue on with her new character or bring back the old and take the one she isn't going to use as an NPC.

What I wouldn't do, is let a murder of convenience be anything other than an evil act. It may be a lot of trouble to try and keep the vegetable PC alive, but since they know they can get it help, it wouldn't be anything other than an evil act to murder that PC just because it is inconvenient to keep it around and keep it alive.

 

[Eejit]

In the game I'm running, the fighter was hit by an Intellect Devourer's Devour Intellect ability, so she now has an Int of 0 (though the rest of the party managed to kill it before it could do anything more). The party is currently level three. The players are arguing that they should kill her character or let her die naturally, since they won't be able to restore her until they hit level nine and can cast greater restoration, and they won't be able to reach a settlement to hire an NPC caster for at least a few months in-game (probably eight to ten sessions). I'm arguing that that would be an irredeemably evil act (killing a helpless ally), and would cause the Paladin to fall and the cleric to have to choose a new deity.

I'm not against any mercy killing, but the character is just effectively stunned until they reach level nine or get to a settlement, so I can't see any justification for them killing the character.

Any chance of running into a friendly Druid who can cast a 5th-level spell prior to reaching a settlement? Reincarnation should also bypass the effects of Devour Intellect.

 

[fba827]

There are two conversations going on here ... What to do with the CHARACTER and what yo to do with the PLAYER

The OP asked about the CHARACTER, and my gut reaction based on how my group would react is ...... Do the characters know about restoration magics? If so they wouldn't just up and kill a friend. Though they'd also try and find a way to 'stash' ( aka he'd be safe and fed) til they could. Doing otherwise would mean killing a friend that they believe they can cure

The OP did not ask about the PLAYER but I'm giving my opinion on that too since without this context my above paragraph is incomplete... The player is looking at a 'long time' ( paraphrasing the) until the character can be used. If that player is still coming to the games, he should get another character to run temporarily in the interim. I'd ask the player what type of character he'd want to play ( possibly giving him a couple options since the environment is limited) and then make a npc based on that for him to run til his PC gets cured. It gives the player something to do, and his 'situation' from having failed the save is not minimized as he has to run a npc who probably isn't as complex with options and not fully customized.
And frankly with a different group of players I sometimes play with I'd in fact just let him make his own temp PC rather than make it a npc for him simply because in this other group the player would just be too upset and feel like he's not playing if he's not playing a character he made.. And we're there to have fun as a group, not to hear someone feel like he's left out for sessions on end and being a distraction more than adding to the group experience.

Anyway just my gut instinct response for such a situation based on my group experiences. Your group experience can vary.

 

[dmnqwk]

There are two conversations going on here ... What to do with the CHARACTER and what yo to do with the PLAYER

You cannot address one without the other. But the problem here is more the fact Abiliy Scores reduced to 0 are handled very poorly, with Constitution deemed "important to live" but "remembering to breathe because it's not a reflex like some believe, but learned behaviour" is not.

One thing I don't think DnD explains very well is "What happens when your Intelligence is 0." Breathing, for example, is not automatic but is a learned behaviour. A character with an Intelligence of 0 would technically suffocate, in the same manner as a Constitution of 0 kills off a player. It's a common mistake of the game design that believes a Con 0 is death but an Int 0 you can still live.

The character cannot breathe, should be dead. But the rules don't cover this they, instead, suggest the character is simply catatonic... which is simply not what would happen with an Intelligence of 0. Perhaps the game needs to finally adjust itself to a better approximation of the 0 ability score.

Variant: Non-ridiculous Ability Score loss rule:
If a character has one or more ability score reduced to 0, the character falls into a coma-like behaviour. Unless treated by a Restoration spell or Heal spell within 24 hours the character must make a death saving throw every morning. If a natural 20 is rolled, all ability scores or 0 are increased to 1. Otherwise, 3 successes indicates the character is stable and their ability scores will be increased to 1 after a week of bedrest. If they fail three times before achieving 3 successes, they slip away and are dead.

Any character who dies while having an ability score of 0 may only be returned to life by a true resurrection or wish spell.

To be poignant there is no reason to suggest a Strength of 0 is worse than a Charisma of 0, it should all end with the same result in a game with no actual medical examples in play.

 

[Quartz]

In the game I'm running, the fighter was hit by an Intellect Devourer's Devour Intellect ability, so she now has an Int of 0

Maybe I missed it, but how did you as GM plan to deal with this? After all, you set up the encounter.

A simple way round is to say that Intellect Devourers don't work that way in your world: perhaps the PC will recover INT after a Long Rest.

I'm arguing that that would be an irredeemably evil act (killing a helpless ally), and would cause the Paladin to fall and the cleric to have to choose a new deity.

Absolutely - I'd be rolling dice for divine retribution.

 

[abirdcall]

They're advocating murdering their friend because they'd be an inconvenience for a short period. That's like euthanizing someone in a coma knowing they'd wake up in a few months. It is a pretty horrible thing to consider.

The metagame aspect is assuming they will eventually be able to cast greater restoration by slaying some trolls or whatever.

For their experience they are powerless to help them. The character is effectively dead. A powerful spell is required to enable them to be more than just a body.

If the character died would they be obligated to carry the body around until they can get a raise spell cast?