Sorcerers Apprentice
Hero
When did "dump stats" become "tanked stats"???
Killing the sacred cow: playing D&D with only 4 abilities instead of 6. And returning to 3 saves instead of 6.
Oofta
Legend
I'm going to echo others - what's the point? What are you trying to achieve?
Also, I don't view strength and con as the same thing at all. We all assume that people with lots of muscle are incredibly fit and never get sick, but it's simply not true. As far as more muscle providing "protection" from damage ... more muscle just pushes critical veins closer to the surface where they are more exposed. You've been watching too many Rambo movies.
Have you ever seen a rock climber? Someone who has to have a lot of stamina/constitution? They tend to be on the scrawny side, not beefcake. Body builders frequently are terrible at rock climbing because they have no endurance.
As far as charisma being ignored, all I can say is that it is not the case in my game. Social interaction is a big part of the game and while the DC may be adjusted based on RP and character's actions it frequently comes down to a charisma check. Besides which, it's a pretty critical skill to several classes.
Also, I don't view strength and con as the same thing at all. We all assume that people with lots of muscle are incredibly fit and never get sick, but it's simply not true. As far as more muscle providing "protection" from damage ... more muscle just pushes critical veins closer to the surface where they are more exposed. You've been watching too many Rambo movies.
Have you ever seen a rock climber? Someone who has to have a lot of stamina/constitution? They tend to be on the scrawny side, not beefcake. Body builders frequently are terrible at rock climbing because they have no endurance.
As far as charisma being ignored, all I can say is that it is not the case in my game. Social interaction is a big part of the game and while the DC may be adjusted based on RP and character's actions it frequently comes down to a charisma check. Besides which, it's a pretty critical skill to several classes.
Rod Staffwand
aka Ermlaspur Flormbator
My homebrew 5e variant that I've been mucking about with uses 4 stats: Str, Dex, Int and Cha each with an associated saving throw. The system is carried over from my time mucking about with Microlite and similar systems. I've found that D&D runs faster and better (for me at least) with these four stats. They're easier to balance against each other and allow for very identifiable build-options and trade-offs.
I wouldn't advise it for everyone, since you do need to rewrite a ton of content, but I was already taking the trouble of fixing 5e anyway, so I figured I'd go for it.
I wouldn't advise it for everyone, since you do need to rewrite a ton of content, but I was already taking the trouble of fixing 5e anyway, so I figured I'd go for it.
Imaculata
Hero
Try and look at it this way:
5th edition is fine as it is, and overall a lot of people seem to like it. And because they like it, we get a lot of homebrew stuff. This not only includes new monsters, new classes, new feats... but also variants on the rules themselves. And I think that's great. It may not be for everybody, but it certainly is interesting to look at alternate takes on the rules.
People used to do this with 3rd edition all the time (and they still do), and often it added to the game. It gave us more options as players and DM's to explore. If you don't like it, ignore it. But if the concept sounds interesting to you, then it might be fun to further explore the ideas that the OP put forward.
The core rules are not holy. They can be changed, if you want to.
TheCosmicKid
Hero
Body builders don't actually have a lot of strength either. (I mean, more than me, but still.) And rock climbers are really strong -- there's a reason climbing in D&D is a Strength check. So I think what you're actually saying here is that there's more to strength than sheer muscle mass.
Oofta
Legend
I would say that how much you can bench press has nothing to do with your endurance.
If I was going to tweak stats, I'd probably go the other way (at least for certain abilities) and break them down even more like you could with 2nd ed player's options (I think). I don't remember the details and I don't have my old books handy but it was along the lines of breaking down strength into explosive (short term) strength vs long term endurance strength. Charisma was broken down into beauty and persuasiveness, etc.
It's difficult to model the complexity of human physiology into simple numbers, I think D&D does a decent job. Someone who can bench press a small car may or may not be able to run a marathon, or may have a glass jaw if they get into a fight.
If people want to tweak the game (I know I have some small modifications) and the group has fun with it, that's great. Have fun. I just think strength (in D&D defined as how much you can lift) has that much to do with con (how many hits you can take and how much endurance you have).
TheCosmicKid
Hero
Really, if you want to go down that rabbit hole, there's no end to it. A marathon runner may have a glass jaw too, and a great rope-a-dope boxer may not be able to run a marathon. We can lump or split the ability scores as much as we want. And if someone feels like they want to reduce the number of scores, Strength + Constitution is hardly the craziest merger they could make. (Though I'd do Wis + Cha first, personally.)
Imaculata
Hero
I think this is a good point, and it is one of the reasons why I'm not opposed to the idea of getting rid of the stat.
It's one of those stats that you don't want to take, but if you don't, your hit point total suffers for it. It might be more fun to just spec towards what you want, and still have a decent amount of health.
For example, you could have every class start with a base amount of health, specific to their class (not a random dice roll based on an ability score), and give some extra amounts of health for having any stat above a certain maximum.
That way you would be rewarded for having a really high strength, or a really high dexterity, or maybe even a really high charisma, with having more hit points.
Reward instead of punishment. And you wouldn't need a constitution score at all.
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