Killjoy Cooking With the Dungeons & Dragons Crowd
- Thread starter Canor Morum
- Start date
Dungeoneer
First Post
Funny article, but a couple years old.
A
amerigoV
Guest
And it continues to be spot on!
Well that is easy, a book just reprinting the same recipes, only slightly altered won't sell, so they don't try to reprint a cookbook as something new, unlike RPGs.
An eggplant recipe book that has the exact same recipes as the old one, is not a new book, but a reprint, and people don't need it if they have the old one. Nothing was changed except the cover art maybe. So a 2nd edition printing of a cookbook is just that, while RPG uses the term "edition" incorrectly.
In the book world, and edition of a printing is really just typographical and/or grammar fixes, and each new edition uses the same things the previous did, but applies these typographical fixes.
RPGs on the other hand just slap "edition" to mean the next "version" of the product. Ergo a naming convention for these so-called editions using software denotation.
3.0
3.5
3.75
etc
So if the RPGs, printed in books, would use the term edition correctly rather than try to redefine it just for them, and called their products what they were, there would be les arguments over editions.
Trivial Pursuit 80's Edition, is the same game in all ways, just themed to one type of questions. Closer and more appropriate use of the term Edition, but still not right.
An eggplant recipe book that has the exact same recipes as the old one, is not a new book, but a reprint, and people don't need it if they have the old one. Nothing was changed except the cover art maybe. So a 2nd edition printing of a cookbook is just that, while RPG uses the term "edition" incorrectly.
In the book world, and edition of a printing is really just typographical and/or grammar fixes, and each new edition uses the same things the previous did, but applies these typographical fixes.
RPGs on the other hand just slap "edition" to mean the next "version" of the product. Ergo a naming convention for these so-called editions using software denotation.
3.0
3.5
3.75
etc
So if the RPGs, printed in books, would use the term edition correctly rather than try to redefine it just for them, and called their products what they were, there would be les arguments over editions.
Trivial Pursuit 80's Edition, is the same game in all ways, just themed to one type of questions. Closer and more appropriate use of the term Edition, but still not right.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Sounds a lot like the hardcore chefs/foodies I know.
Anthony Bourdain, Mario Batali, and Michael Pollan do not agree on what makes good food, and will hotly (and not always respectfully) debate these topics. They can sometimes agree on broad strokes, but the details will get anyone hung up.
The reason the Food Network has its own channel while D&D does not isn't because of the crowd, it's because the food network is pornography (link to South Park episode).
These kinds of articles raise my hackles. Pretending that the D&D crowd is somehow more obnoxious of an audience than any other slice of humanity certainly makes arrogant, condescending bloggers feel better about entirely disregarding them, about complaining about too much complaining, about appointing themselves "THE VOICE OF REASON" for pretending to be above the fray, while at the same time backhandedly engaging in it with passive-aggressive sniping like this, becoming some sort of UR-whiner, a singularity of buttclowernery that disappears in upon itself in infinite recursion.
I sympathize with the point. Really, I do. D&D has an unpleasable fanbase (tvtropes link), absolutely. But so do sports franchises and political parties, and I don't see awkward, overweight, neckbearded Cat Piss Men rising to the street to burn cars and break stuff (and break people) just because elves no longer get a -2 CON the way Lakers fans do on a win (or loss) or the way some people do when marginal tax rate on the top 2% of the nation is hiked to provide food for the poor.
There are ways to deal with an unpleasable fanbase. Look at Paizo. They know how to listen without taking orders. That's part of the reason they're successful. They can find signal in the noise.
Giving up and saying "D&D fans are just angry!" like that somehow offends your delicate sensibilities is just the talk of cheese-eating wusbag surrender monkeys. People aren't sunshine and rainbows and politeness. Work retail in December. Stop being a sensitive crybaby princess about The Internet. Find the signal in the noise.
Or whatever.
But now that I've written a post complaining about complaining about complaining, it is time for me to disappear up my own orifice in infinite recursive meta-griping.
Alan Shutko
Explorer
Cooking is not immune to these arguments. For example, the 1997 Joy of Cooking was reviled because of the changes it made, dropping some stuff that was traditional and changing the voice. The 2006 edition went back to the traditional feel and was much better received.
In fact, before 2006 came out, there were lots of people recommending you find one of the older, used editions of the cookbook rather than purchase the 1997 edition.
In fact, before 2006 came out, there were lots of people recommending you find one of the older, used editions of the cookbook rather than purchase the 1997 edition.
1Mac
First Post
PS You decry the sin of claiming that "the D&D crowd is somehow more obnoxious of an audience" than other groups, then go on to do the same for sports fans and political activists, talking about their propensity to riot. It's true that sports fans and political activists are probably more likely to riot than gamers, but the author wasn't claiming otherwise.
If I say, "gamers are uniquely prone to anger over arcane and irrelevant minutiae," saying "other groups are uniquely prone to violence" is not a relevant comment, unless you can show that the violence results from equally arcane and irrelevant minutiae. I don't recall the MLB Wild Card riots of the 90's, and I don't think any political movement could ever be as irrelevant as what gamers tend to argue about. That is, whatever you think of tax increases, or any other political issue, it's more important than whether the Cataclysm made a travesty out of the Forgotten Realms.
The folks who are saying that the world of cooking has equally intense and silly arguments are more on point.
If I say, "gamers are uniquely prone to anger over arcane and irrelevant minutiae," saying "other groups are uniquely prone to violence" is not a relevant comment, unless you can show that the violence results from equally arcane and irrelevant minutiae. I don't recall the MLB Wild Card riots of the 90's, and I don't think any political movement could ever be as irrelevant as what gamers tend to argue about. That is, whatever you think of tax increases, or any other political issue, it's more important than whether the Cataclysm made a travesty out of the Forgotten Realms.
The folks who are saying that the world of cooking has equally intense and silly arguments are more on point.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I don't know who he is, and it doesn't matter to me so much.
It's nothin' personal, just that I've seen a lot of folks trot out the "D&D fans are SO UNPLEASANT" stereotype who clearly have not seriously dealt with significant slices of the public before. Because if they had, I think they'd realize that D&D fans are no better or worse than any other group of people, especially any other group of (sometimes over-)zealous fans.
Just makin' the point that people everywhere are irrational and over-emotional; D&D fans not especially so.
I also said that.
Canor Morum
First Post
Wow, you guys turned a humorous article into a debate. Bravo.
1Mac
First Post
And as KM pointed out, there a certain recursive irony to arguing around this particular article, given its topic.
@KM: I just didn't think your examples of sports and politics were very apt for the point you were trying to make. But one could dismiss the distinction as, well, arcane minutiae.
Dungeoneer
First Post
Pro-tip: engaging in serious argument with parody cooking article makes you look like the very type of person Lore was skewering when he wrote it.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Well, there is no reason or rationality when it comes to pet peeves.
I just find that writing an article essentially complaining about complaining also makes you look like the type of person you are "skewering."
Plus, you get to look all smug when someone contradicts your point and you say (or have someone else say) "See! I told you!"
Which would work into the irrational pet peeve aspect of this.
ANYWAY, NOT A BIG DEAL, DON'T LOOSE SLEEP OVER IT, OKAY?!
So do I get a dry rub or marinated next?
Or are you just trying to rake us over the coals?
jefgorbach
First Post
likely the same reason Starcraft/etc are live-play competitive televised sports in Korea while we're stuck with ho-hum basketball/etc here in the USA ... lack of innovative sponsors willing to overlook a large lucrative niche market of active players.
Y'know, I remember reading this article when it first came out and getting a chuckle here and there. But it's a bit biased--after all, we haven't heard from the fans that actually like The Better Joy Cookbook. My mind wandered to this piece during a boring meeting today, so let me share a few of those posts with you:
Posted: 12:14 a.m. by roflmaotoon I can't believe that some people still don't want to get the newest version of The Better Joy Cookbook. It has fewer recipes and they're far simpler to actually use. I don't want to spend hours planning my meal before I cook it. Sure, the online portion planner and nutrition value index they discussed at the time of publication is vaporware, but the shopping list generator is here and functional. That's worth paying a monthly subscription fee to access, and anyone who disagrees is an aging social reject that is probably bald and overweight.
Posted: 12:29 a.m. by otakuguy4444 Those tools that keep cooking their outdated version of macaroni and cheese and meatloaf are slowly killing our hobby. Don't they realize that Dishfinder is never going to have the name recognition and market presence of The Better Joy Cookbook? If our preferred version goes off the shelf from the major retail outlets, no one will cook any more AT ALL!!! It might not be your favorite cookbook, but if people don't start with this one, they'll never pick up a different cookbook--ever. Good luck trying to get your own favorite cookbook at the store when my favorite one is gone and our hobby is a faded memory.
Posted: 12:48 a.m. by Snarky_Avatar I can prove that the revised version of The Better Joy Cookbook is better than the previous version. You can go online and pay for access to an exclusive web service that provides you with the same content as their dead tree versions. Everyone knows that today's fans want reasons to pull out and show off their iPhones around the table instead of staring at a printed page like a sixteenth-century pilgrim.
Posted: 1:09 a.m. by p0wurg4mur1337 I saw the funniest thing at my local grocery store tonight. There was some guy there buying beef and wine... to make beef bourguignon. Who eats that any more? Classical French cooking hasn't been featured in a Hollywood action movie with explosions and CGI or in a direct-to-video anime release, so it's obviously a style of cooking that no one likes any more. Why can't people just make their decisions based on what is popular in mainstream entertainment instead of according to what they think tastes good? French cuisine just isn't relevant any more!
Posted: 1:13 a.m. by MonkeyPants These people with their "old school" cookbooks and open source products are killing the book that I love. Cooking is a niche hobby, and we have to compete with restaurants, caterers, delis, and everyone else that wants to cook for us. They're bleeding off the market because they won't do what The Better Joy Cookbook wants them too. Thanks for killing my hobby, jerks.
Posted: 1:18 a.m. by otakuguy4444 One of my friends sold their copy of The Better Joy Cookbook at the used bookstore and picked up a copy of Dishfinder. At first, I was freaked because I thought he might be leaving the hobby--but then I realized that he must just be using the online content to cook his meals. Yeah, that must be it. Book sales are declining because people hate using archaic printed books, not because The Better Joy Cookbook doesn't suit their cooking style. Because I lack any verifiable sales figures and possess the ability to rationalize anything, I will declare that The Better Joy Cookbook is obviously the greatest version ever and is, without a doubt, dominating the market. Because of the internet, declining sales actually means that it's doing better, not worse!
Posted: 12:14 a.m. by roflmaotoon I can't believe that some people still don't want to get the newest version of The Better Joy Cookbook. It has fewer recipes and they're far simpler to actually use. I don't want to spend hours planning my meal before I cook it. Sure, the online portion planner and nutrition value index they discussed at the time of publication is vaporware, but the shopping list generator is here and functional. That's worth paying a monthly subscription fee to access, and anyone who disagrees is an aging social reject that is probably bald and overweight.
Posted: 12:29 a.m. by otakuguy4444 Those tools that keep cooking their outdated version of macaroni and cheese and meatloaf are slowly killing our hobby. Don't they realize that Dishfinder is never going to have the name recognition and market presence of The Better Joy Cookbook? If our preferred version goes off the shelf from the major retail outlets, no one will cook any more AT ALL!!! It might not be your favorite cookbook, but if people don't start with this one, they'll never pick up a different cookbook--ever. Good luck trying to get your own favorite cookbook at the store when my favorite one is gone and our hobby is a faded memory.
Posted: 12:48 a.m. by Snarky_Avatar I can prove that the revised version of The Better Joy Cookbook is better than the previous version. You can go online and pay for access to an exclusive web service that provides you with the same content as their dead tree versions. Everyone knows that today's fans want reasons to pull out and show off their iPhones around the table instead of staring at a printed page like a sixteenth-century pilgrim.
Posted: 1:09 a.m. by p0wurg4mur1337 I saw the funniest thing at my local grocery store tonight. There was some guy there buying beef and wine... to make beef bourguignon. Who eats that any more? Classical French cooking hasn't been featured in a Hollywood action movie with explosions and CGI or in a direct-to-video anime release, so it's obviously a style of cooking that no one likes any more. Why can't people just make their decisions based on what is popular in mainstream entertainment instead of according to what they think tastes good? French cuisine just isn't relevant any more!
Posted: 1:13 a.m. by MonkeyPants These people with their "old school" cookbooks and open source products are killing the book that I love. Cooking is a niche hobby, and we have to compete with restaurants, caterers, delis, and everyone else that wants to cook for us. They're bleeding off the market because they won't do what The Better Joy Cookbook wants them too. Thanks for killing my hobby, jerks.
Posted: 1:18 a.m. by otakuguy4444 One of my friends sold their copy of The Better Joy Cookbook at the used bookstore and picked up a copy of Dishfinder. At first, I was freaked because I thought he might be leaving the hobby--but then I realized that he must just be using the online content to cook his meals. Yeah, that must be it. Book sales are declining because people hate using archaic printed books, not because The Better Joy Cookbook doesn't suit their cooking style. Because I lack any verifiable sales figures and possess the ability to rationalize anything, I will declare that The Better Joy Cookbook is obviously the greatest version ever and is, without a doubt, dominating the market. Because of the internet, declining sales actually means that it's doing better, not worse!
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