Pathfinder 2E Kingmaker Anniversary Edition delayed again.

[Glade Riven]

I am not surprised but I am angry and disappointed. Paizo really should learn from Enworld on how to run a crowdfunding campaign.

Now if they have hard copies for sale at Gencon before I at LEAST get my PDFs, I will be full on enraged. Right now I am venting on Twitter, which is not something I normally do.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

I am not surprised but I am angry and disappointed. Paizo really should learn from Enworld on how to run a crowdfunding campaign.

Now if they have hard copies for sale at Gencon before I at LEAST get my PDFs, I will be full on enraged. Right now I am venting on Twitter, which is not something I normally do.

I had gotten excited about the 5e conversion and was putting together a campaign before I saw it was delayed so I put my plans on hold….2+ years ago. Sigh.

 

[Glade Riven]

Several times I've had plans postponed, but it isn't just that. It's the stalling, the lack of communication, the "bad news late on the day Friday so we can avoid it coming out in the press until Monday." There was one point where it took 3 months for their "monthly" update.

 

[teitan]

I am not surprised but I am angry and disappointed. Paizo really should learn from Enworld on how to run a crowdfunding campaign.

Now if they have hard copies for sale at Gencon before I at LEAST get my PDFs, I will be full on enraged. Right now I am venting on Twitter, which is not something I normally do.

You are aware that Paizo had a strike and work stoppage from staff and freelancers that delayed everything and nothing was turned in for a handful of months yes? Every product line got hit with delays including nearly finished books like the new tech book for Starfinder etc.

 

[Glade Riven]

Funny you say that...I actually got a response from Brian Bauman regarding it.

To the best of my knowledge, Kingmaker delays are not caused by the unionization process. Unionization requires a lot of ongoing physical, mental and emotional effort, so some indirect effects are possible, but there is little to no direct conflict between the two efforts.

I'm not close enough to the Kingmaker process itself to comment usefully on delays, aside from denying that @PaizoWorkers is a likely underlying cause.

Let's compare and contrast Kingmaker's development vs. Grimmerspace, since both projects were launched around the same time. Grimmerspace is being led by one of the developers of Starfinder under an "indie" label. It made $188k out of a goal of $10k. They are also a bit behind, but there are key differences between how Paizo and how Iron GM Games is handling it. Iron GM makes monthly updates, interacts with their backers, and has actually delivered some of their content (a bestiary and a small adventure).

To contrast, Kingmaker made $25,000,000. The original timetable of a year to delivery was, honestly, never realistic because I don't think they realized how much stuff Owl Cat Games added. Kingmaker did have front loaded Pathfinder 1e content as a backer bonus, but the cost on that was negligible since it was all PDFs of older content. There were times when it was almost 3 months between updates.

Then there was the news that it was being delayed until April 2022 - which was first announced behind a paywall at Paizocon 2021 (late May). The delay was annoying, but hiding it behind a paywall was infuriating. We didn't get an official announcement until over a month later. At least this time they didn't hide the delay behind a paywall, but all I've gotten as a backer are excuses, a couple of full page spread previews, and a photo of my pawns sitting in a warehouse. PDFs aren't scheduled to be released until the physicals are being sent out, and it seems the books are stuck in editing hell right now.

If it were just delays, that'd be one thing, but it's also how they've handled backers through the whole process. I'm allowed to be angry.

 

[dave2008]

To contrast, Kingmaker made $25,000,000.

Where did you get this number? I just looked it up and it was much less:

Am I missing something?

 

[Glade Riven]

I think what you are looking at is the Owlcat Games Kickstarter Kingmaker project, but Games on Tabletop is now displaying a different number raised than what they did before I posted this thing. I swear it was displaying $25 million before the news came out, but now it's showing around half a million.

 

[Alzrius]

Nuts. I really want the PF1E Bestiary book that they're making as part of this; hopefully we'll see it before the end of the year.

 

[dave2008]

I think what you are looking at is the Owlcat Games Kickstarter Kingmaker project, but Games on Tabletop is now displaying a different number raised than what they did before I posted this thing. I swear it was displaying $25 million before the news came out, but now it's showing around half a million.

I don't know, but I would think it would have made a lot more waves if it made $25 mill. I truly don't think it broke the $1mill rank.

 

[gss000]

I don't know, but I would think it would have made a lot more waves if it made $25 mill. I truly don't think it broke the $1mill rank.

$25 million would have made it the top Kickstarter of all time, which I only know because of Brandon Sanderson breaking the record around $20 million with his "I accidentally wrote five extra novels during the pandemic" kickstarter.

I think the original point is still valid. I've seen a lot of projects hurt by being too successful, which requires good communication and updates. Even then, it is reasonable to be frustrated when they don't deliver, no matter the reasons.

 

[kinwolf]

I don't get why all the delays. The 5e conversion was supposedly outsourced to Legendary Games, and it was announced by LG as "Done" and trasnfered to Paizo a full year ago, and yet it is still in editing?

 

[kenada]

For a company that has been releasing material like clockwork for years, it’s surprising what a mess Kingmaker Anniversary Edition has been. You’d think Paizo would be better at project planning than that.

 

[dave2008]

For a company that has been releasing material like clockwork for years, it’s surprising what a mess Kingmaker Anniversary Edition has been. You’d think Paizo would be better at project planning than that.

I does make one wonder if something is going on beyond normal delay issues.

 

[Retreater]

Might as well wait for 6e at this rate.

 

[Staffan]

For a company that has been releasing material like clockwork for years, it’s surprising what a mess Kingmaker Anniversary Edition has been. You’d think Paizo would be better at project planning than that.

There was also a pretty chonky delay for the Absalom sourcebook they recently released – I think it was supposed to be released concurrently with the Agents of Edgewatch AP, and that was released in the latter half of 2020.

I does make one wonder if something is going on beyond normal delay issues.

The pandemic certainly didn't help, but I've also been noticing a lot of folks leaving Paizo for supposedly greener pastures (Wizards of the Coast in many cases). I don't know if it's more than the normal rate, but given the stuff that came out around the time they were unionizing, Paizo does not seem like a great place to work, and the pay is nothing to write home about either. So if the job is poorly paid and the work environment is bad, people won't have many reasons to stay.

 

[Mythos Enthusiast]

Might as well wait for 6e at this rate.

If 6e has a 3 action economy I'm jumping ship anyway. I (mostly) love paizo rules but man I hate them as a company.

 

[dave2008]

If 6e has a 3 action economy I'm jumping ship anyway. I (mostly) love paizo rules but man I hate them as a company.

While I don't think it is likely that 6e will have a 3 action economy, even if it does you will be waiting a long time for that. 5e is getting a refresh in 2024 and that could mean another 5-10 yrs after that before 6e. So safe bet is we could see 6e on 2034. Long time to wait IMO.

 

[kenada]

For the first half of its existence, D&D editions were mostly compatible with each other. I think it would be good to call the revision “6e” to signal a return to that ethos. The idea that new editions need to break compatibility and fix all the problems needs to be put to rest. It’s not healthy for the game, especially when you have one that is growing like 5e is.

 

[Glade Riven]

Well, I figured out how I got that 25 million number, and it has to do with Games on Tabletop's poor web design choices. That's the total Games on Tabletop has raised, which is at the footer of every page. But when you're reading the comments of a campaign post and a bit blinded by rage, it looks like that this specific PROJECT made that amount of money.

Anywho, new update, "We're 99.99% ready to go to print we swear" from Paizo and already rumors that they are going to miss the September date in the replies.

 

[Glade Riven]

Well, I figured out how I got that 25 million number, and it has to do with Games on Tabletop's poor web design choices. That's the total Games on Tabletop has raised, which is at the footer of every page. But when you're reading the comments of a campaign post and a bit blinded by rage, it looks like that this specific PROJECT made that amount of money.

Anywho, new update, "We're 99.99% ready to go to print we swear" from Paizo and already rumors that they are going to miss the September date in the replies.