Kits, Paragon Paths, Prestige Classes, and Themes; Oh My!

[dangerous jack]

Kits or Themes here.

I really like Themes because they aren't restricted by class (although of course they sometimes worked better with some classes), and they are nice tight packages of powers.

But I'm also a big fan of having different characters with different numbers of layers. A Fighter without any kits next to a Fighter with 3 kits. I know this wasn't the way it worked in 2e, but if the drawbacks were done right then it _could_ be possible. My favourite characters over the last 30 years all had drawbacks / weaknesses. Although maybe an amazon holy-slayer pirate wizard is getting a little ridiculous .

In the end, if I can have a fighter with a theme balanced with a fighter without a theme, I'll be incredibly happy.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I dislike answering Themes because it sounds to me like Themes won't work the same way in 5e. But it sounds like that's the closest approximation to the alternate class features system that Pathfinder uses.

 

[The Human Target]

Themes/Kits for me, because I like the idea of being able to get them from level 1.

 

[Tallifer]

Themes are great, but they add another layer of complexity at level 1 with which new players have to deal. Plus some of them are overpowered: themes should be more flavourful than powerful (I am looking at you, Sohei and Fey Beast Master). If the designers tone them down, I would say keep them, but currently they are more complex than Paragon Paths.

Paragon Paths come at 11th level when players have already mastered their class and most of the rules. They present a single page of fluff and crunch which greatly affect your character at a level when players can handle (and by then need) variety and more power.

 

[Tallifer]

I don't care if they are called themes or kits, but I'd like to see them be stackable and not 1/character.

Some fighters are just that. Some fighters are nobleborn. Some are from a noble family that has fallen into hard times, and have been forced to join a mercenary company dedicated to a deity who has a vendetta with the Orcish Pantheon.

As it stands now, Themes offer too much mechanical complexity and power to do that. HOWEVER for the fluff, the Fourth Edition rules and Character Builder currently completely allow you to take as many Backgrounds as you need, although you can only choose one mechanical benefit out of all of them. I think Backgrounds are sufficient for story-reasons. Themes and Kits are for power whether versatility or enhancement.

 

[keterys]

Eh, don't consider any of those elements from the very worst examples of them.

Assume whatever they do, it'll be a balanced and reasonable representation thereof.

 

[Li Shenron]

Which method was your favorite (whether you want your choice to be assumed in core rules or as an optional add-on rules module)?

Kits - Chosen during character creation; optional on a character by character basis
Paragon Paths - Everyone gets a paragon path at the same level (11th)
Prestige Classes - Entry points varied from 5th level to 15th level; optional
Themes - Chosen during character creation; optional on a game by game basis

None of them... Feats would have been my favourite way of customizing characters, they were a universal system for adding extra abilities and in theory you can do everything you wanted with them... The only problem I have with them is that there were way too many bleah feats, it seemed to me that the designers just thought that dumb feats were so easy to stuff in any book, and therefore they didn't spend time designing something nice with them.

Obviously as a 3ed gamer I've used many prestige classes. I think their concept was cool, but they should have designed them around actual groups of people belonging to a campaign setting, and with more flexibility in the requirements so that different classes could enter the PrCl and result in wildly different characters. Sadly, again with the cheap supplements bloat, we got tons of mechanically poorly designed PrCl (even tho many of the concepts were pretty cool) that just catered the worst powergamers and frenzied multiclassers. PrCl were supposed to be like jewels, and ended up being like trinkets.

I didn't have time to really try out 2e kits and 4e paths and themes, but something similar to kits (variant classes) were included in 3e Unearthed Arcana, and I definitely liked most of them. However I think several of these should have actually been built-in the PHB core classes, by making them more flexible in their signature abilities, rather than making them available as a later option.

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

I'd rather have archetypes from Pathfinder or barring those themes from 4E. Prestige and paragon classes were a horrible idea.