Kits vs. Prestige Classes vs. Racial Variants

[CleverNickName]

Which style of character customization would you prefer to see in 5E?

In the old days, we had Kits, which allow us to customize the core character classes right out of the gate. Nowadays we have prestige classes, which allow us to customize our character through multiclassing at mid to high level. There are also racial variants, which allow us to tweak the starting line for our characters a little bit more with racial advantages and disadvantages.

But do we really need this many layers of customization?

Here's my opinion.

I like prestige classes. I like the idea of rewarding the players for character advancement, and I like the "earn as you go" approach to character building. But as the years went by, the qualifying level for a prestige class began to creep downward, eventually hovering somewhere around 5th to 8th level. And as the level requirements for prestige classes dropped, the more they look like Kits.

And don't even get me started on racial variants. Under 3.5, there are like a dozen flavors of elf. With each new flavor added, it seemed more and more like the character's race was just a kit by a different name. You want the "woodland hunter kit?" Wood elf + ranger = done.

So in 5E, why not drop the pretense and give us what we really seem to want: Character Kits.

 

[Yora]

By Character Kits you mean class kits, I assume?

Yes, I would like those, if you call them that or Alternate Class Features, as those were called in 3rd Edition. But why do you claim we all want that and then make it a poll?

 

[CleverNickName]

I accidentally voted for Character Kits, assuming you meant class kits.

But this is an odd poll. The thread starts with claiming that we all want character kits, without explaining what they would be.

Sorry about that. Over the years, I've heard them described as both Character and Class kits...but yes. I am referring to the 2E class kits. The 3.X character variants in Unearthed Arcana could also be considered "kits" of a sort, though much more complicated.

And I should at least remove the bias in my OP.

 

[Guest 85555]

If he is talking about the old 2E kits from the compete books, they are preferable in my opinion to prestige classes. Kits werent as broken generally. You usually got some situational special beenfits and hindrances (something along the lines of +2 to hit when using a certain weapon and armor restrictions).

 

[Hassassin]

All of the above... Sort of.

Character Kits: I'm not sure what you mean, exactly, but if they are anything like the UA class variants in 3e: yes, please.

Prestige Classes: They become something wildly different than what they were meant to be. I'd like to see them as DM's options for campaign organizations. I'd rather not see them than have them be just another character building block for players.

Racial Variants: If you mean subraces, they pretty much have to be there because they are a part of campaign settings. Their mechanical differences could be scaled down, though.

Other: Flexible multi-classing, with multi-class spellcasters not losing as much of their power as in 3e (without prestige classes).

 

[Savage Wombat]

Whether kits were broken depended on what splatbook you got them from. The fighter book was fine, the thief book largely useless. The priest book was overspecialized, I felt. And then books like the elf book and the bard book started to inch up the power level in every book.

I figure that, if you can't make your character concept with a theme, then it should probably be a variant class or alternative class ability. Perhaps, to maintain that PrC feel, you could have it only kick in at a higher level.

 

[Yora]

If he is talking about the old 2E kits from the compete books, they are preferable in my opinion to prestige classes. Kits werent as broken generally. You usually got some situational special beenfits and hindrances (something along the lines of +2 to hit when using a certain weapon and armor restrictions).

I've heard some where extremely broken, but that's because they were just badly made and not a fault of the concept itself. Some thing goes for Prestige Classes though.

 

[Guest 85555]

I've heard some where extremely broken, but that's because they were just badly made and not a fault of the concept itself. Some thing goes for Prestige Classes though.

I only have a couple of the brown books from my 2e days. But my memory is the broken ones were generally no where near as bad as the prestige multiclassing stuff that went on in 3e. A kit was very much a flavor theme with minimal mechanical support. There probably were some over and some underpowered ones. That is easily remedied. But again, playing 2e (which I did religiously bewteen 89 and 2000) we rarely encountered any issues with them.

 

[delericho]

None of the above.

3e was sort-of on the right track with feats, allowing characters to be customised right out of the gate. They then over-complicated matters with Prestige Classes and the like, which were just unnecessary.

4e was also sort-of on the right track with the powers structure, but failed by rigidly locking powers to classes (rather than also having selectable racial powers), and by adding the unnecessary complexities of Themes, Paragon Paths, and Epic Destinies.

The best way to customise characters, IMO, would be to have a whole load of powers, some associated with classes, some with races, perhaps some with alignments or patron deities, some associated with theme, and so on and so on. Basically, just have a whole bunch of these elements that people can choose from.

Character Kits, Prestige Classes, Paragon Paths, and Racial Variants then just become a matter of individual builds - if you want a Mountain Dwarf, take the appropriate set of Dwarf powers instead of the 'default' Hill Dwarf powers; if you want a Bladesinger, take these powers, and so on.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Themes covers this area pretty well, folding kits/prestiges/ and variants all into a nice package.

You want to play a dwarf, but a mountain dwarf, take that racial theme. Want to be an archmage, take that theme, want to be a two weapon fighter with guns, take the gunslinger theme.

Themes were most recently introduced in 4E darksun and NWN campaign settings, and to a degree had early starts in 4e design.