Kits vs Prestige Classes

[Seeker95]

None of the above.

I don't like prestige classes. I didn't like kits. I also would prefer that we get rid of 7 of the 11 base classes, and go with warrior, rogue, priest and mage. Want a druid? It's a priest with a nature deity. Want a paladin? Play a warrior-priest. Etc.

 

[fba827]

I should start out by saying that I am one of those "I'd prefer classless" people. But, between PrCs and kits, I prefer the concept of kits over the concept of PrCs.

I emphasize the word "concept" because I don't want to get into individual PrCs and individual kits since there are both good and bad examples, in my opinion, of each of those.

 

[tetsujin28]

Kits were horrible. Absolutely horrible. A great number of them were grossly overpowered.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Just want to point out that not all the 2e kits were screwy and unbalanced. Some of them were actually pretty good. But its true that they were inconsistent. At the time, game balance wasn't, or didn't seem to be, a huge design priority like it is now. I's see 3e kits as sort of like having starter character templates, like a pirate, ex-soldier, urban druid...that kind of thing. These days I think they'd do a better job of it.

Plus it could allow prestige classes to be prestigious again. They seem, now, to be considered a given, even though they're listed as optional and under the domain of the DM to allow or not allow.

 

[tetsujin28]

In order to use one out of the book, as is, they require extreme metagame planning, and leave little room for character growth or customization as the campaign progresses, because "in order to qualify for X PRC, I have to take Power Attack at 1st level, Sunder at 4th, etc".

This is just plain hooey. In order to qualify at the minimum level for a prestige class, this is sometimes true. But it is not true about joining one in a natural progression of story. Then you have something to work toward, God forbid.

 

[tetsujin28]

Plus it could allow prestige classes to be prestigious again. They seem, now, to be considered a given, even though they're listed as optional and under the domain of the DM to allow or not allow.

Prestige classes are as prestigious as the GM wants them to be. Personally, I think 'prestige' was the wrong word to use. I like 'advanced', as in D20M.

 

[Greg K]

I chose kits, because Variant Classes as per Unearthed Arcana was not a choice. I do recognize that many 2e kits suffered from bizarre mechanics (e.g., savage warrior acting as if under an alarm spell) and later power creep became an issue (e.g, the bladesinger). The former I blame on the underlying mechanics of 2e not being as streamlined as 3e while the latter I see paralleled in many PrC's (the only difference is that TSR used freelancers and WOTC uses in house designers).

However, 2e kits done right (e.g., the kits in the 2e "The Complete Thief's Handbook" and "The Complete Druid's Handbook" ) were really not much different than 3.X class variants (e.g., the fighter thug variant in the PHB and both the wilderness rogue and barbarian hunter from Unearthed Arcana). Like 3.X class variants they were a way to reflect concepts based on either cultural, environmental, or occupational specialities within a given a class. Furthermore, like variant classes in 3.x, tailoring classes through such kits were,imo, with rare exception, a better and more logical way of reflecting such differences opposed to take a feat, take cross class skills, and multiclass all just to qualify for a PrC (many of which aren't prestigious and are concepts that should be available to beginning players)

 

[davidschwartznz]

I voted prestige classes.

However, I think the real successor to kits is substition levels. Much more elegant than kits or PrCs, IMO.

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

I prefer kits, but I think kits, substitution levels, and prestige classes are all equally useful and have thier place.

 

[Greg K]

I prefer kits, but I think kits, substitution levels, and prestige classes are all equally useful and have thier place.

Agreed. I like Prcs for things like Druid hierarchy as described in GURPs and some other sources. The base druids (read druid class) are ollaves (or alternately ovates) and serve as priests, judges, teachers, and diplomats. The prestige class would be the actual Druids, The Druids were concernered with understanding the mysteries of the universe, how the universe operates, and interpreting the will of the gods rather than the day to day tending of the community. They love riddles and puzzles, because it keeps the mind sharp and thinking in different directions. Furthermore, rather than giving a straight answer to a question they tend to give answers in the form of riddles for one to unravel.

As for becoming a Druid, it was not something one set out to achieve and delibertalely trying to become a member was frowned upon. Instead, one had to be invited into their order and invitation was given only to those ollaves whom had achieved some great insight into the mysteries of the universe and how it operates. Such as insight was presented at druidic gathering where all levels of membership appeared and the insight was presented in the form of a riddle for others to unravel. The Druids would base one's worthiness of entry on these riddles and one might wait a lifetime to gain entry if they were ever invited at all.

So, in this case, the druid's are truly a special order that draws its members from a select group of individual. There are definite prerequisites and only a rare few ever make it into their ranks.