Knock-Down Feat Description?

[Legildur]

Does anyone follow the SRD guidelines that "deities can obtain the feats described here, in addition to any standard feats." It would seem the intent is to restrict those feats to deities -- otherwise, why that wording and placement in the divine abilities section?

You know, I'd never noticed that line before.... Saves my moral dilemma in whether I try and get my DM to allow my character to take it! (even post errata)

 

[Dross]

Ok, question. You trip your opponent and he gets up, you get an AoO and do 10+ damage, does that mean you've just knocked him back down?

As you ask it: No, because technically the oppoent is still on the ground when the AoO fires (which is why wou cannot trip a "standing up from prone" opponent).

I had that thought too, but consider this: does the Knockdown feat stop the action of standing up since you are still technically on the ground? Does it mean that the prone opponent has lost the move action and needs to use the standard action to stand (and risking another possible AoO)? Or other than taking 10+ HP damage nothing has changed?

I don't know.

 

[Sejs]

Ok, question. You trip your opponent and he gets up, you get an AoO and do 10+ damage, does that mean you've just knocked him back down?

Nope - an AoO occurs before the action that's triggered it has completed. If someone provokes an AoO for standing up from prone you cannot trip them again because when the AoO takes place they're still prone.


The errata in question regarding Knockdown's pretty straightforeward: if you knock someone down because you did the requisite 10+ damage, you do not get to make a follow-up attack like you'd gain with using Improved Trip. Essentially what Knockdown does is let you reverse the order of operation for tripping someone. Normally you touch 'em, try to trip them and if you're successful and have Improved Trip you can make a follow-up attack as if you hadn't used your action to trip them. However, if you don't trip them you're out an action.

With Knockdown you get to smack 'em regardless, but with the added benefit that you might trip the target for free in addition to dealing damage.

 

[Legildur]

Does anyone recall the ruling on whether a failed trip attempt from the Knockdown feat would allow your opponent a chance to counter-trip?

 

[Iku Rex]

Does anyone recall the ruling on whether a failed trip attempt from the Knockdown feat would allow your opponent a chance to counter-trip?

IIRC the ruling (in an e-mail from the Sage or some such) was that you can't be counter-tripped.

 

[Legildur]

IIRC the ruling (in an e-mail from the Sage or some such) was that you can't be counter-tripped.

Wow! That would truly make it a powerful feat..... I believe that the feat should require the use of a two-handed bludgeoning weapon and the Power Attack feat.

 

[Sejs]

Wow! That would truly make it a powerful feat..... I believe that the feat should require the use of a two-handed bludgeoning weapon and the Power Attack feat.

It shouldn't -require- it, but using a two-handed weapon and power attacking would certainly make meeting the 10+ damage requirement a lot easier to meet.

 

[Dross]

Wow! That would truly make it a powerful feat..... I believe that the feat should require the use of a two-handed bludgeoning weapon and the Power Attack feat.

YMMV but the feat requires INT13, STR15, Combat Expertise, Imp Trip and BAB+3. That is a fair set of pre-reqs (not the hightest, but not the least eaither).

I personally think that the feat needs the damage required to be upped a bit (afterall by level 3 a fighter could be doing 10+ damage semi- to regually) or activated on a confirmed (or unconfirmed) crit.

 

[Rhun]

Wow! That would truly make it a powerful feat..... I believe that the feat should require the use of a two-handed bludgeoning weapon and the Power Attack feat.

I've got a monk in one group with this feat, and he has a tendency to strike for more then 10 points of damage on every hit. Kinda cool when he can leap into a crowd of mooks and lay them all out on the ground.

 

[Sejs]

I personally think that the feat needs the damage required to be upped a bit (afterall by level 3 a fighter could be doing 10+ damage semi- to regually) or activated on a confirmed (or unconfirmed) crit.

It's rare to see the feat taken now, if the trigger requirements were made more stringent you'd see it even less frequently.

And if you made it crit-related, you'd see people knocking folks down more often with rapiers and kukri than you would with warhammers and greataxes.