Knowledge about classes

[Reffy]

I have a discussion with my DM if my character knows something about a certain class.
Does a character have knowledge about every class there is (like he's reading the rule books)?
There are no rules that I could find about this. Also, there is no knowledge 'class' skill or anything similar.

Example: A wizard with conjuration as his school says to a fighter "I'm a wizard."
How does a fighter know what a wizard is? Or is it common knowledge? What about all the other classes? Does he need to have a certain intelligence, level, knowledge skill to know something about this class?

Personally, I believe a character knows everything there is to know about classes and prestige classes. In the example, the fighter knows what a wizard is and that a wizard can choose a school. He doesn't know which one the wizard chose, just by meeting him.

Maybe a bad example, but I don't know how I could explain otherwise. Does anyone know anything about this? How do you guys play things like this out?

 

[Kinak]

The answer is "your character knows whatever your DM says."

That said, I personally haven't been at a table that plays as though the characters have read the rulebooks. Nor would I suggest we start, unless we were playing a game set in the Order of the Stick world.

As a Pathfinder DM, I assume class names are used in world as the dictionary suggests, not mechanically. So people are called "warriors" all the time, but it doesn't mean they have levels of the NPC class. And the "barbarians of the North" don't all have the rage class feature. A "summoner" could be anyone with summoning magics. And so on and so on.

If a player needed to know something about a specific character or deity or whatever, they can make the appropriate knowledge check. I'd cheerfully explain to anyone with a rank of Knowledge (Arcana) that magic can be inherited, granted by a mysterious power, or learned. But, even then, I wouldn't mention the class names, because they don't mean anything special in world.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Considering there are necessary checks to see what a creature's properties are, there would definitely be checks to see what a class's features are. The checks might not be mentioned specifically in the books, but there does need to be a separation of character knowledge and player knowledge or else things get really wonky.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

OotS is the only place I've ever seen characters consistently recognize and use class names.

Some classes make sense as specific in-game skillsets, like the wizard. The wizard class has a specific modus operandi that naturally informs the fluff, so saying "wizard" in character probably should mean something specific.

On the other hand, I don't think "fighter" should mean anything more in-character than it does in real life. IRL, a fighter might be a UFC fighter, a soldier, a street thug, or any number of other people who've seen a fight or two. A fighter in-character could be a fighter, a barbarian (you don't think they call themselves barbarians, do you?), a rogue ("I'm a fighter who fights dirty." Again, not many rogues are gonna call themselves rogues.), a warblade, etc. 'Fighter' is simply a very broad term that applies to all kinds of characters.

 

[Dandu]

Take a look at Hellfire Warlock. The lore section gives DCs for knowledge checks required to for the PC to learn information about members of the Hellfire Warlock prestige class.

At some level, a PC does know about other classes. They may call a bard a skald, but they know that all members of the bard/skald designation have the ability to inspire others with their music as one of their defining features.

 

[Grogg of the North]

<snip>

I assume class names are used in world as the dictionary suggests, not mechanically. So people are called "warriors" all the time, but it doesn't mean they have levels of the NPC class. And the "barbarians of the North" don't all have the rage class feature. A "summoner" could be anyone with summoning magics. And so on and so on.

If a player needed to know something about a specific character or deity or whatever, they can make the appropriate knowledge check. I'd cheerfully explain to anyone with a rank of Knowledge (Arcana) that magic can be inherited, granted by a mysterious power, or learned. But, even then, I wouldn't mention the class names, because they don't mean anything special in world.

QFT.

I've never found anything more immersion breaking than having to stop and explain to a player that "No, I don't mean they have levels in the witch NPC class, they're just female magic users."

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I have a discussion with my DM if my character knows something about a certain class.
Does a character have knowledge about every class there is (like he's reading the rule books)?
There are no rules that I could find about this. Also, there is no knowledge 'class' skill or anything similar.

Many classes are common, so they would be common knowledge. I would rule that any class in the PH1 would be common knowledge. This could be cultural too; a wild halfling community might have good knowledge of rangers but know nothing about wizards. (Yes, I'm running a Dark Sun campaign.)

Archetypes, subclasses, rare classes like the Cloistered Cleric, prestige classes and so forth might not be known to anyone without training in an appropriate skill.

Example: A wizard with conjuration as his school says to a fighter "I'm a wizard."
How does a fighter know what a wizard is? Or is it common knowledge? What about all the other classes? Does he need to have a certain intelligence, level, knowledge skill to know something about this class?

Assuming it's not rare, I would assume the fighter would know. Of course, that's not the same thing as having "complete" information. The fighter might know a wizard needs a spellbook, but not why. The fighter might not know about wizard specialization. The fighter isn't likely to know any but the best known spells (Magic Missile, Fireball, etc). The fighter might be confused by the difference between a ranger and a scout, and not know about ranger magic.

Having said this, with just a little experience, either working beside a wizard (as part of a party or in their background) or having faced one or two, the fighter's knowledge is going to expand. Pretty much anything about a wizard that wouldn't require an Arcana check would be known to the fighter. Needs a spellbook? Check. Needs to sleep to prep spells? Check. Generally squishy and not combat-trained? Check.

IMO, "subtle" character abilities might not be known. Detect Evil and Smite Evil would probably be known, because it's part of a paladin's propaganda, but it's easy to see how someone might not know about the far more subtle Detect Evil. It's extremely unlikely anyone could tell the difference between a wizard and a loremaster; the loremaster's abilities are often subtle. Any wizard could call themselves an archmage. If you can cast 9th-level spells, people call you what you want them to call you, even if you don't have the prestige class.

It's also easy to confuse a class. A charismatic rogue who tells stories might call himself a "bard", and simple observation won't tell you anything. You never see them cast a spell ... well, there's many reasons for that.

You might expect Sir Victor to be a fighter, and be surprised when he's an Eldritch Knight instead.

Telling the difference between a cleric, adept and druid might be hard at first glance.

The "rogue" NPC turns out to just be an expert with lots of Open Lock... or maybe the locksmith turns out to be a rogue, and does stuff on the side. Unless you actually personally know a sorcerer, you might think they're a wizard.

If you can't make a skill check, a robed unarmored cleric casting Animate Dead looks awfully similar to a wizard casting the same spell.

If you see someone blasting their foes with magic continually, and the barbarian turns excitedly to the wizard and asks why they can't do that... they might be surprised when the wizard (who has the appropriate skills) says that guy is a warlock.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Well, a barbarian war party can consist of barbarians, fighters, rangers, rogues, and even shawmen. They are all barbarians from the same tribe, but they function differently.
Mage, sage, seer, enchanter, lore Master, vizier, wizard, oracle, and other terms can apply to wizards, whether specialists or not.
So it is a question of what has your character experienced? What was he taught? Does he think all wizards are evil and animate dead? Do all wizards cast fireballs over the battlements?
Maybe he can ask questions of the wizard when they meet.
"Is it true you can turn the tide of a river? What about spoiling cream overnight? Can you conjure a rodent from your hat? Or do you really saw maidens in half for the entertainment of it?"

 

[Campbell]

My preference is for game mechanics to not be a thing in setting. I instead choose to focus on individual characters, their experiences, how they were trained, etc. Game mechanics are a means - not an end.

 

[Elf Witch]

I think it depends on what the word means in the world. In my roommates game a wizard means a person who studied magic at a wizards school and belongs to a guild. It is a title everyone who does not belong are called mages, sorcerers, witches. It is one of my pet peeve when people introduce themselves a their class especially when it comes to classes like rogues or say beguilers. As someone said a fighter could be a soldier a warrior a knight depending on how the character is built.