Knowledge Skillls Checks

[norsedude]

I run a D&D 3.5 game with players who make large use of knowledge skill checks to learn about monsters. At early levels this practice was not a problem. As players have progressed in levels, they have maximized skills points in knowledge skills and effectively expect me to read the strengths and weaknesses to them from the monster manual or other monster source book. Personally, part of the fun of D&D (whatever edition you play) is to figure how to fight monsters over time and not have everything be cookie cutter). Use of the knowledge skills in the aforementioned tends to hurt part of the gaming experience in my opinion.

I realize that I can be a tyrant DM and simply outlaw use of the knowledge skills but I dislike doing massive changes to the way a game/campaign has been run, especially at late stages of a campaign. Basically, I was curious to see how other people handling similar issues in a game. Insights or suggestions would be most welcome.

 

[BOZ]

you could always increase the DC - maybe CR *3 or something like that. or DC 10 + CR, or DC 10 +CR*2, or whatever makes it work better.

 

[Magi_Gabriel]

Probably best to discuss this in the DnD rules section, moving now.

 

[Jdvn1]

Well, remember that that's quite a skill investment the party is making. Be sure to put them up against a variety of creatures so that maybe they're all not covered. The DCs to know creatures are pretty high, and you don't get a whole lot of information for a check. The way we run it is that the player gets to ask one queston for meeting the DC, and an extra question for each 5 points the DC is beaten by.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm very surprised your having this problem, I tend to have the opposite problem.

In order to get anything from the knowledge check, its DC 10 + the monster's HD. Problem is, HD scale much faster than CR...I'm surprised your characters are able to make those knowledge checks at all.

Also, keep in mind that by the strict ruling of skill, you only get 1 piece of knowledge with a successful check. You have to get 5 above teh base DC in order to get more.

 

[LordAidite]

How its handled in our games is the DC=10+HD of the creature. If they make the check they know what type of creature they are fightning and a small insight into the creature. For every 5 points they check exceeds the DC, the PC recieves 1 additional piece of information such as if the creature has DR,SR, and so on. The PC is never told what the DR actually is but he might be told, "You know that the only way to seal up the creatures wounds is with a weapon of cold-iron." If the player crits on the check the DM usually offers lots of usefull information along with strategy on how to defeat it.
Even if the players max out the knowledge skill you still only recieve maybe 1 or 2 pieces of information.

 

[Shallown]

The control you have as a gm is the one piece of information part of the knowledge check. The rules really don't define what one piece of knowledge is. Is it just the creatures DR or is it all its basic defenses. That is up to you. In general my present character has high intelligence and has invested in every knowledge skill with several kept maxed. Our Gm usually gives us general information and I can ask ne general question per extra 5. Hitting the DC gives me the types or types of creatures. Such as If I know it is a demon I Know in general what all traits demons share and what some may have.

My character almost always ask the same general questions with the first being how resistant is it to spells. the next being what are its physical resitances. The gm usually rates things as weak moderate strong or nearly unbeatable (or unbeatable in the case of golumns) Then I might go for weaknesses after those questions are asked. My character thinks offensively and therefore wants to know what spells he can throw that will affect the target. He seldom worries about the creatures offensive abilities unless he rolls extremely well. Usually at 12th level I score 1-3 questions.

If you want to control or limit the information given then feel free to do so. I think quoting exact mechanics is a little silly but you can always give the information in terms the characters would no so if the party barabarian regularly does 30+ damage something with a DR 5 is not gonne be all that scary though maybe 5 levels ago it would have been. Offer the info in context with the characters present abilities.

hope this helps

later

 

[nittanytbone]

Just a quick horror story...

My DM usually gives me some relatively useless information regardless of what questions I ask. For example, if I passed my check and got two additional pieces of information on a bat swarm, I'd get the information that its a swarm of bats, the bats are diminutive creatures, and they can see pretty well in the dark...

Even though my questions might be, "How can we hurt it?" and "How can we drive it off non-lethally?" Duh -- coulda figured that out by looking at it and realizing that it lived in dark room.

I'm never investing in knowledge skills ever again as they never yield useful information on monsters or other aspects of the world ("I got a 25, what does that tell me about that holy symbol?" "Um, you have no idea.").

So, the way I see it, those folks that get to ask questions and get them answered are pretty lucky!

 

[Mavrik]

The following are suggestions for the knowledge known on the following DC checks ; we use these well in-game and they seem to work

DC 10 : Type of creature, and alignment and Creature general name.
DC 15 : Home Plane / Environment / Basics of Type / Organisation
DC 20 : Resistances and Immunities / Traits of class of creature
DC 25 : Interactions and demeanour / Special Attacks
DC 30 : Specific Creature Damage Reduction, / vulnerabilities /
DC 40 : Specifics of individual creature


Eg Pit Fiend

DC10 - Evil, Devil. Extra planar, Is a pit fiend

DC15 - From Hell, Outside traits, usually single encounter or summoned

DC20 - Devil resistances and immunities / Devil Traits,

DC25 - Special Attack / Interaction and demeanour or a pit fiend

DC30 - Special Qualities of a pit fiend.

DC 40 - Specifics of this creature, this is Fatzarec the pit fiend, and he usually carries an sword with intelligence.

 

[Voadam]

The following are suggestions for the knowledge known on the following DC checks ; we use these well in-game and they seem to work

DC 10 : Type of creature, and alignment and Creature general name.
DC 15 : Home Plane / Environment / Basics of Type / Organisation

Eg Pit Fiend

DC10 - Evil, Devil. Extra planar, Is a pit fiend

DC15 - From Hell, Outside traits, usually single encounter or summoned

The DC 10 info does not tell you everything you get from the DC 15 info? I.e. devils are from hell, they are outsiders, devils are generally summoned if on the prime, etc.?