Knowledges that are hard to fit.

[Mistah J]

Hey all,

The 10 basic Knowledge skills are a standard lot that cover a huge range of topics. Every so often however, you run across a field of study that makes you stop and scratch your head as to where it belongs.

Some people just make it a new knowledge skill on its own - and there is nothing wrong with that, but others (myself included) think that doing so creates too many niches that spread skill points too thin.

So for all those who agree with me, what topics do you find the hardest to place and where did you end up putting them?

My example is math and physics - which I put under knowledge: engineering.

Right now, I am struggling to find a place for the study of astronomy and astrology. Where would you put them?

I'm hoping this thread can turn into a list of sorts to help others down the road.

Thanks

 

[redboxrazor]

Why not put all of the aforementioned (except for Astrology) under Knowledge: Science?

Astrology could fit under Religion or even Arcana.

 

[arwink]

It depends on the setting - I'd throw astronomy under knowledge Nature, but I like my druids to be mysterious stargazing types that hang-out in circles of standing stones. In other settings I'd either put it under Arcana or Religion, depending on the number of gods associated with celestial phenomena.

 

[James Jacobs]

Having started college as an engineering major, I (and my grade point average for those first two semesters) can confirm that putting math and physics under Knowledge (engineering) is 100% accurate.

I would categorize astronomy under Knowledge (geography) since it's got a lot of navigation uses. I would categorize astrology under Knowledge (arcana or religion), which one would depend on the nature of the campaign setting. (In Dragonlance, it'd be religion, but in Golarion I'd skew toward arcana).

 

[Ghostwind]

When in doubt, you can always fall to back to a generic Intelligence check.

 

[Burn_Boy]

My group falls into the generic Intelligence check when we run into tricky spots, but we're pretty good at finding places to fit things.

One question we've been having trouble with is when we're fighting things like demons and such, not just your average Orc or Goblin. You should have to have Knowledge The Planes to learn about their strengths and weaknesses and such but if you have a Wizard or Sorcerer who's purpose in life is to fight and stuff, can't you argue that during their schooling (when they get the justification for points in Knowledge Arcana) they also studied the big bads that roam the Abyss and the Pit?

 

[mgbeach]

My group falls into the generic Intelligence check when we run into tricky spots, but we're pretty good at finding places to fit things.

One question we've been having trouble with is when we're fighting things like demons and such, not just your average Orc or Goblin. You should have to have Knowledge The Planes to learn about their strengths and weaknesses and such but if you have a Wizard or Sorcerer who's purpose in life is to fight and stuff, can't you argue that during their schooling (when they get the justification for points in Knowledge Arcana) they also studied the big bads that roam the Abyss and the Pit?

You can argue anything

Seriously though, if the player makes a good enough case for their character having come across the subject previously.. the generic int check is where it's at in my opinion. This is one reason it's good to have developed backstories... helps with winning that argument!

 

[Ryujin]

In many cases you'll find that the "hard to fit" knowledges are hard to place, precisely because they fit into multiple categories. Math works in both Engineering and Arcana. Someone with an appropriate Profession could also make a role. Astronomy could work with Arcana or Nature, but Astrology would likely be Arcana or Religion.

I think that you'll find most of the more esoteric stuff fits in Arcana or Religion. Don't be afraid to cast a wide net though. Rather than restricting the players, give them options. One skill or knowledge might be more appropriate than another but that could be reflected in a penalty to a roll made with a seemingly less appropriate skill, rather than restricting the roll outright.

 

[jefgorbach]

Depends on the character and reason for the roll - star-based navigation was a common skill for many groups which would be a prime fit for Knowledge(geography) while an oracle consulting the stars as part of a divination would be knowledge(religion) whereas a wizard checking planetary alignment as it pertains to his ritual would make a Knowledge(arcane) or Knowledge(planes) depending on whether he's seeking a Meteor Strike or Summoning, respectfully.

 

[Wolf72]

maybe there needs to be a new special entry under the skill:


Special: Knowledge-Weird _ _ _ _ (insert favorite game appropriate term here). If you can give reasonable explanations of why your character should know about a given topic you can make a Knowledge check that is one half the ranks in your highest Knowledge skill. You still receive a +3 as though you had assigned ranks to this skill.

or alternatively you could allow them to make a knowledge check with 1 rank/2 levels +3 trained + int mod.

after reading that twice, it seems to add to much more to knowledge