Knowlege (Dungeoneering) replacement?

[Nifft]

Anyone else hate Knowlege (Dungeoneering)?

What do you do instead for knowlege checks on Aberrations, etc.?

I've been thinking of a Knowlege (Dark Arts), which would cover [Vile] effects, Aberrations, certain Necromantic effects, the undead (native and extraplanar), and nasty Psionic things -- anything really icky that my really icky BBEGs want to do, and "unnatural-like" stuff that's corrupt in some way.

Thoughts?

-- N

 

[CombatWombat51]

Why don't you want to use Knowledge: Dungeoneering? I'm just playing Devil's advocate

I don't like the skill, or at least the name of it, because characters IMC rarely step foot inside 'dungeons' (underground complexes). And abberations don't have that much of a focus on being in dungeons in standard D&D, let alone IMC. And knowing about caves by itself isn't all that snazzy of a skill. There's no Knowledge: Desert, or Marsh, there's just Survival.

I think reorganizing the Knowledge skills to fit into neater categories would be a good idea, since it somewhat seems that creature types are kinda stuffed in there just to make certain skills useful.

 

[Golem2176]

Anyone else hate Knowlege (Dungeoneering)?

What do you do instead for knowlege checks on Aberrations, etc.?

I've been thinking of a Knowlege (Dark Arts), which would cover [Vile] effects, Aberrations, certain Necromantic effects, the undead (native and extraplanar), and nasty Psionic things -- anything really icky that my really icky BBEGs want to do, and "unnatural-like" stuff that's corrupt in some way.

Thoughts?

-- N

I think that Dark Arts fits in as Arcana. If you want to break it up (Arcana), you could make it represent each school of magic. In this case it would be Knowledge (Necromancy). It makes sense to me. Anyone else agree?

EDIT: On second thought Knowledge (Occult) might be more appropriate.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

I think Knowledge skills should be left well enough alone. FAR too much tinkering was done with 3.0 that created a slushpool of Knowledge skills that basically made everything so specific that no one but a sage would take them.

Who cares what a Knowledge skill is called, it's just a technical label. I would definitely oppose including undead under another skill b/c that devalues the Knowledge - Religion skill.

Sure, the knowledge skill classifications seem broad. But that is what they were meant to be, thereby allowing characters to gain access to broad info w/o having to blow all their skill points on just one skill.

btw, I love how the Complete Warrior handles knowledge skills. It further broadens what (i.e.) Knowledge - History means to a warrior as opposed to creating a whole slew of nearly useless Knowledge skills like many 3rd party publishers have done (i.e. military tactics vs. military knowledge vs. military history vs. blah blah blah).

 

[Stalker0]

I think Knowledge skills should be left well enough alone. FAR too much tinkering was done with 3.0 that created a slushpool of Knowledge skills that basically made everything so specific that no one but a sage would take them.

Who cares what a Knowledge skill is called, it's just a technical label. I would definitely oppose including undead under another skill b/c that devalues the Knowledge - Religion skill.

Sure, the knowledge skill classifications seem broad. But that is what they were meant to be, thereby allowing characters to gain access to broad info w/o having to blow all their skill points on just one skill.

btw, I love how the Complete Warrior handles knowledge skills. It further broadens what (i.e.) Knowledge - History means to a warrior as opposed to creating a whole slew of nearly useless Knowledge skills like many 3rd party publishers have done (i.e. military tactics vs. military knowledge vs. military history vs. blah blah blah).

Yeah, any more diluting of the skill makes the problem worse. My only problem with knowledges is sometimes who has them as class skills. But then again, I think sometimes we get into the mindset that if a class doesn't have something as a class skill they don't have it... sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay the double cost.

 

[Nifft]

I'm not asking for extra Knowlege skills. Please, no more posts how we have enough knowlege skills. I'm trying to kill one, not breed them.

I'm asking what would you do to eliminate or replace Knowlege (Dungeoneering), and fill the rest of the holes and/or inconsistancies in the Knowlege system.

-- N

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm not asking for extra Knowlege skills. Please, no more posts how we have enough knowlege skills. I'm trying to kill one, not breed them.

It seems to me that it was yourself in the first place to name a new Knowledge(Dark Arts)!

If you want to eliminate KN(Dungeoneering) and incorporate its uses into other existing skills, you may consider these:

- aberrations & oozes : use Knowledge(Arcana) just as with Magical Beasts
- caverns & spelunking : use either Knowledge(Nature) if natural or Knowledge(Architecture & Engineering) if artificials

In 3.0 there was no Knowledge to use about creatures lore IIRC, but some accessory book introduced Knowledge(Monsters) which you may even adopt in 3.5 to cross-cover all creatures. Unless you dislike having more skills to do the same thing.

 

[Nifft]

Erm... that's true. I was trying to cram a couple things into the thread.

1) How do you handle knowlege checks for icky stuff out of the BoVD? (Vile damage, Corrupt spells, etc.?)

2) How would you eliminate Kn(Dungeoneering) for a campaign-world that will never, ever have an Underdark?

3) Any specific skill choice for Evil MacGuffins?

4) Were you to relocate Undead away from Religion, which Knowlege would get them?

5) Boy, "Knowlege (Dark Arts)" sure sounds better than "Knowlege (Dungeoneering)", doesn't it?

-- N