Kobold Love ?

[TarionzCousin]

The idea of kobold love makes me a little queasy. Or is it Quasit?

Young Dicey, there's something your mother and I have been meaning to tell you: you're adopted. You're really half-kobold.

But we both love you as much as if you had been our own, human, non-feral child with normal hands and non-warty skin.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I see the main advantage of Shifty being able to shift two squares per round, every round, plus a standard action to attack. Someone mentioned ranged attackers benefiting from it, but I don't seem many situations where you couldn't do as well shifting as your move action. .

It's much better for ranged attackers not because you can shift twice, but because you can shift once and then take a full move action to get 'far' away from your attacker (e.g. 7 squares). That can make it much more difficult to be pursued, required your opponent to charge you (MBA and not another power) or risk other problems (e.g. terrain, allies, etc.).

 

[mneme]

Could have picked Renenant, but enc. power is boring, no feats I like, and the unlife not drop to unconscious at 0, well not positive thinking is it.

Are you kidding? Revenants are awesome, and have the best feat suite in the game.

Pick a race that goes well with your designated class. For one feat, you've got that race's encounter power (or, for Human Soul, a great defense bonus), and you can get all that race's feats as well.

What class could you be playing where that isn't optimal?

 

[NMcCoy]

Bloodbond Seekers get Shifty as a class feature at first level; I'm not sure why it'd be so much more broken in the hands of a kobold.

 

[Hammerhead]

Clerics get Healing Word 2/encounter at 1st level too, but I'd imagine that any race that gave an identical ability would be pretty damn broken. I'm not suggesting that Shifty/Bloodbond Seeker Shifty is anywhere near as good/defining as Healing Word; I'm simply saying that you're comparing apples and soccer balls; it's ultimately pointless.

Class features do not equal racial features.

 

[Istar]

Clerics get Healing Word 2/encounter at 1st level too, but I'd imagine that any race that gave an identical ability would be pretty damn broken. I'm not suggesting that Shifty/Bloodbond Seeker Shifty is anywhere near as good/defining as Healing Word; I'm simply saying that you're comparing apples and soccer balls; it's ultimately pointless.

Class features do not equal racial features.

His comment is 100% more relevant than yours.

So there is a power in the game that gives "Shift 1" as a minor action.
Then it cant really be broken can it.
As the designers "Have" included it in the players handbooks to be used.
Regardless of whether it is a racial, class, feat, or Hong Kong Fui skill.

 

[mneme]

Racial powers, class features, and feats (for example) aren't fungible, no. Classes are the silo that most of the game's powers sit in, so they can do things that would be entirely broken if they were attached to races (and could get mixed with any class).

Similarly, paragon paths aren't as powerful as classes (ish) but get huge game-changing features of their own -- like giant damage bonuses, powers that would be broken if they were attached to a class and not siloed between paragon paths, etc.

And items can't give you entire class features; they need to be balanced against other items, and that wouldn't be.

"shift 1 as a minor, at will" isn't broken--not as a monster feature, not as a class feature for -some- ranged strikers (Seekers). "shift 1 as a minor action, at will" as a racial feature probably is -- because it makes kobolds simply better at being ranged strikers than everyone else is, somewhat like "mine are bigger" is not broken for an epic destiny, but -is- broken for a PC race. What you're trading away (eg, other racial choices) isn't big enough compared to what you're buying, and it has to be.

 

[LightPhoenix]

A couple of people hit it spot on:

1) Shifty as an at-will is too powerful (though I don't think it's completely off the charts);
2) Shifty as an at-will doesn't hold with keeping racial powers encounter powers, and;
3) Shifty as an encounter power is too weak compared to other racial abilities.

Shifty is always going to be a great ability for ranged attackers, because Kobolds are supposed to be mobile. I don't really see that aspect of the ability as a problem.

There are a couple of ways to deal with Shifty:

1) Shifty allows you to shift X squares as an encounter minor. It doesn't really sync up with kobolds as enemies. Of course, it doesn't need to - PCs and NPCs are different.

2) Shifty allows you to shift one square as an at-will minor, with the caveat you can only use it once per round. This is perhaps the most elegant solution, while keeping it a power and keeping the flavor of the ability. It's also a bit of a kludge.

3) Don't alter it at all. Kobolds get some pretty shoddy class abilities - +2 trap defense is highly situational. Con/Dex is a pretty poor ability combination*; no classes use them as primary/secondary except Assassin, and none use them as secondary/secondary except Fighter and Summoner Wizard. Small size limits weapon use, so Kobold Fighters are weaker. Stealth/Thievery is a decent skill combination, but no more so than Acrobatics/Thievery that Halflings get. It may not be as overpowered as it first appears.

The "Kobolds are evil" argument for why WotC won't publish them has one important fallacy - Gnolls were written up in Dragon. Shifty could be dealt with mechanically if it is a problem. My guess is that they don't want Kobolds stepping on the Dragonborns' toes.

* I did not do an exhaustive class breakdown; I just looked at the Compendium. Not guaranteed to be 100% correct. Posters experiencing analyses lasting greater than four hours should see a doctor. Results may vary.

 

[kaomera]

1) Shifty allows you to shift X squares as an encounter minor. It doesn't really sync up with kobolds as enemies. Of course, it doesn't need to - PCs and NPCs are different.

I'd personally prefer to see Shifty as an encounter power become "shift + other bonus", possibly "shift 1 square and choose one enemy you are adjacent to either before or after the shift. That enemy grants you combat advantage until the end of your next turn". This example would also open up the possibility of Kobold racial feats revolving around gaini9ng combat advantage.

2) Shifty allows you to shift one square as an at-will minor, with the caveat you can only use it once per round. This is perhaps the most elegant solution, while keeping it a power and keeping the flavor of the ability. It's also a bit of a kludge.

I also don't think limiting Shifty to once per round actually does anything, since you can still use your move action (and even your Standard) to shift 1 square, or to move normally.

3) Don't alter it at all. Kobolds get some pretty shoddy class abilities - +2 trap defense is highly situational. Con/Dex is a pretty poor ability combination*; no classes use them as primary/secondary except Assassin, and none use them as secondary/secondary except Fighter and Summoner Wizard. Small size limits weapon use, so Kobold Fighters are weaker. Stealth/Thievery is a decent skill combination, but no more so than Acrobatics/Thievery that Halflings get. It may not be as overpowered as it first appears.

Also note that Kobolds get no racial feat access.

I would be really tempted to go this route. Does anyone have any actual play experience with Shifty being overpowered? I know eriktheguy mentioned using it without any obvious problems, so I'd think that it at least wouldn't be an issue for every group.

The "Kobolds are evil" argument for why WotC won't publish them has one important fallacy - Gnolls were written up in Dragon. Shifty could be dealt with mechanically if it is a problem. My guess is that they don't want Kobolds stepping on the Dragonborns' toes.

Note that specifically WotC has said that they don't want to publish too many "monster" races as PCs. Right now Gnolls, Drow, and Minotaurs are "special" and they don't want to ruin that. Actually, go ahead and add Tieflings, Revenants, Githzerai, Warforged, Wilden, Shadar-kai, Bladelings, Shifters, Gnomes, Changelings, Devas, Shardminds, Dragonborn, Goliaths, Half-Orcs, Genasi, and Kalashtar to that list while you're at it...

 

[Istar]

The Kobold "Shifty" at-will isnt even close to the Seekers ability.

As it is simply Shift 1 only.

The seeker ability is "Shift" which brings in feat, power and magic item abilities such as:

Long Step - make it a shift 2.
Avandra sandals - make it a shift 3/4 instead of just 1.
Class powers and magic items that let you shift an extra square.

The Kobold version is plebby compared to that.

Also consider their is not much else on the table for a Kobold with +2 stealth about it.

Plus many items let you shift per encounter, or shift as part of the attack and probably some of those attacks are minor attacks as well.

Dont really see if a Seeker can get the better version, why a Kobold cant get the weaker one.