D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Parmandur]

the math base is the same for 24 years... take d20 add the mod from a stat (take stat subtract ten and divide by 2) then add any proficiency you have (in 3e it was different skill ranks or base attack, in 4e it was 1/2 level or 1/2 level +2, in 5e it's the prof bonus) then maybe a magical bonus... roll high is better vs a DC

1e and 2e also had the same core math... but it was more case by case (roll low for stat/skill roll high for attack and save, roll low on a d10 for initiative and roll low on d% for some class skills)

Well, the BBC just published an article that opened up saying that Dungeons & Dragons hasn't changed inn50 years, so sure, why not...?

Though seriously, beyond the big broad strokes the 2014 and and 2024 versions of 5E have the same math down to the nitty-gritty: that's why you can mox and match Monsters from them (they introduced tOneD&D Monsters a couple years ago now, and we've been mixing freely) and PC options.

 

[Parmandur]

if I can look at two copies of the same class and not need to change anything to make them work togather... so some minor tweeks would be one thing, but my go to example (and something I HAVE to play pre 2024) a mtn dwarf bard with a 2014 background needs to do as much to remake the character as someone has to do if they showed up with NO character... I guess the stats can stay the same, but your class is completely different (different way of casting, different spells you can even know, and different way your main class feature works) your race no longer gives you stat mods... and the NEW stat mods from background are not able to be made into the races +2 str +2 con. You get a feat you now need to pick, and you lost your background feature. If you picked your background FOR that feature (not unheard of) you might just pick a new one entirely.

I will raise that, if I have my 2014 PHB and get hit with a condition I can't use the book to look it up... there is no slow condition and exhaustion is completely different.

From what we've seen and played, you can just use the 2014 PC in play and reference the 2024 material for those rules questions. Thisnis really quite simple, and the PHB draft material even explains how to mix and match.

 

[Parmandur]

yeah and it is amazing how people claim that the thing THEY want MUST be the thing most do

It's been a happy discovery for me, but it's what WotC claims, not me. And theybare the ones reaping record sales, so there doesn't seem to be any serious reason to doubt theybare doing their market research well.

 

[Parmandur]

I know my group is not sold on it yet, but is that a common thought?

Based on the survey reports WotC us sharing, not so much.

 

[Parmandur]

2014 wasn't a big boom... it was a bunch of (but not all I know) pf1 players coming back and most (again I know not all) 4e players moving over with a few new players... WotC didn't start talking boom until after stranger things...end of 2016.
That "and steadily picking up" is stranger things and then covid... both caused large growths. had it been 4e, or 3e, or 2e or 1e rules nothing in stranger things would have changed (they were not really useing rules at all) and as such as many people would have come to D&D.

saying anything else feels like it doesn't line up with reality.

sorry don't see it

Actually, that's not true: 5E was flying off the shelf immediately in 2014, they sold out of multiple printings of thebPHB in 2014 alone when they expected the first printing to suffice for a long while. It was already white hot before Strbager Things.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I am not surprised... It's cool to have biases but like I said simplifying 10 years of steady growth for a product down to... it got advertised on a netflix show... just doesn't click for me, especially when D&D was featured on shows previous to that.

lol... you see my bias but not your own

 

[GMforPowergamers]

From what we've seen and played, you can just use the 2014 PC in play and reference the 2024 material for those rules questions. Thisnis really quite simple, and the PHB draft material even explains how to mix and match.

not true for background or race... again lets go to dwarf bard noble... the noble gives me 3 retainers I just lost, the bard class has different way to do inspiration and spells, and no way to reconcile the +2str +2con at best I can take +2 to one an +1 to the other... oh and that is all before condition and actin changes

 

[Oofta]

I think that there is a confluence of things that make 5E the best selling version ever. One aspect is that a lot of people enjoy playing the game. Is that 10% of the reason it's exploded or 90%? Who knows and why does it really matter?

I think 5E is the best version yet for my purposes and what I want out of a TTRPG. It's popular, a lot of people that I never thought would play D&D enjoy it (i.e. my sister), it seems to hit a sweet spot of complexity and flexibility that has a broad appeal. Beyond that I don't want to get into edition wars because it's pointless.

I'm just happy I can find people to play with, that's enough for me.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

not true for background or race... again lets go to dwarf bard noble... the noble gives me 3 retainers I just lost, the bard class has different way to do inspiration and spells, and no way to reconcile the +2str +2con at best I can take +2 to one an +1 to the other... oh and that is all before condition and actin changes

A lot of this toing and froing has to do with the importance to playing by RAW.

If at my table we were changing an existing campaign to the new rules. I think I would be open to just grandfathering in the existing characters but some stuff would switch to the new rules. Spell prep, the actual spells, the meaning of conditions, smites and sneak attack.

Though if nobody wanted to rebuild their character I would question the merit to adoption of the new rules.

 

[Parmandur]

not true for background or race... again lets go to dwarf bard noble... the noble gives me 3 retainers I just lost, the bard class has different way to do inspiration and spells, and no way to reconcile the +2str +2con at best I can take +2 to one an +1 to the other... oh and that is all before condition and actin changes

The +2 and +2 are already accounted for in the Mountain Dwarf abilities, and the draft PHB t3xt already explains how to use that instead of Background. Yhatliyerally the easiest part. The others are handled immediately by "particular beats general." Thisnrrally isn't remotely hard.