D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Bolares]

Having said that, to reiterate, still not a fan of the phrasing, but it's more of a mild "ew adversarial marketing" than a gross misconduct that changes my opinion of the company as a whole.

we agree on this. That's why I said I think the argument is dishonest, not the company. People (and companies) are allowed to screw up every once in a while.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Maybe you can pick just a couple books, or just a couple companies, and say, "you can use these things in this campaign". It's the default to WotC that bothers me.

again this only works if you already did the leg work and the discussion...

They're really no better than anyone else, and may be worse than some depending on your point of view.

again I am not saying WotC is better, Im saying its an easy "just one"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't see how this is true. I'm not objecting to them promesing something about an unfinished product. I object to them stating as if fact it was, that their game will be closer to 5e, when all current evidence points to it being really similar to OD&D. I don't know how many times I repeated that by now... Maybe we are just talking in circles around each other and just agree to disagree.

So wait, you're prognosticating about how Black Flag will end up ("similar to OD&D") but it's "dishonest" for KP to prognosticate about the same? I'm confused.

Also could you quote the statement of fact? I feel like I'm missing something. I can only find opinion.

being incorret is not the only definition of dishonest...

???? That doesn't make any sense in English in the context.

 

[Bolares]

So wait, you're prognosticating about how Black Flag will end up ("similar to OD&D") but it's "dishonest" for KP to prognosticate about the same? I'm confused.

where did I do that? I'm saying that right now there is no evidence (demonstrated by both companies playtests that one is really closer to 5e than the other. So, it's dishonest (deceptive) for KP to say otherwise.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I get what you are saying, but I prefer to still refrain to atribute that part to malice, because that's not obvious enough to me yet, and the obvious part is still pretty bad to me.

True. I think this goes back to your earlier post, correctly talking about how this rhetoric goes back to the OGL kerfuffle.

A lot of people were surprised by the speed with which WoTC was just like ...

.... and I think that some products and the "advertising" or "marketing" around them did not change to reflect the times. Whether that's a deliberate choice (FUD) or because they still have that mindset is not for me to say. I would note that we have had a senior person from KP on the thread, and while I wouldn't put him on the spot, it would be nice if there was a simple retraction or correction of this language.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

where did I do that? I'm saying that right now there is no evidence (demonstrated by both companies playtests that one is really closer to 5e than the other. So, it's dishonest (deceptive) for KP to say otherwise.

You did it in the quote:

I object to them stating as if fact it was, that their game will be closer to 5e, when all current evidence points to it being really similar to OD&D.

That isn't a factual statement. That is 100% pure, uncut opinion and prognostication. You're predicting the future.

And you're saying it's "dishonest" for a company to state what they believe will be the case.

I'd also still like to see a quote of the "statement of fact" they made, because, I can only find opinion.

 

[Bolares]

I'm I really not being clear here or just being gaslighted?

 

[Bolares]

(FUD)

what's FUD?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I'm I really not being clear here or just being gaslighted?

If it walks like a duck...

what's FUD?

Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So wait, you're prognosticating about how Black Flag will end up ("similar to OD&D")

I knwo this wasn't directed at me, but I think I have a pretty fair answer...

IF 1D&D is just a slight variation but still 5e, then so is black flagg
if 1D&D is enough of a change to be a new half (0.5) edition, then so is black flagg
if 1 D&D is enough of a change to be a new edition (6e) then so is black flagg

again this is based on what we have seen... they seem to be changing the same amount of things. So you MIGHT hit any of those 3 conclusions and be pretty fair.

the unfair reading is "1 D&D is enough of a change to be a full or half edition change but Black flagg isn't"