Kraken Variants

[freyar]

Yeah, that's a bit more, but it is a good match to 1d100. Here's a question: did 1E and 2E have a standard trample damage, and were these much higher in comparison?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, that's a bit more, but it is a good match to 1d100.

Yeah, we might as well leave the trample damage as is.

Here's a question: did 1E and 2E have a standard trample damage, and were these much higher in comparison?

You're expecting consistency in AD&D mechanics?!

 

[freyar]

Well, just more like wanting to know if these were also very high trample critters by comparison in AD&D.

Umm, normal Imp Grab and Constrict?

 

[Cleon]

Well, just more like wanting to know if these were also very high trample critters by comparison in AD&D.

Hmm… well off the top of my head the highest trample damage critter I can think of in standard AD&D sources is the Brachiosaurus*, which:

Monster Manual (1977) "Similar to apatosaurs, they might step on something small, causing 8-80 points of damage."
Monstrous Compendium Volume Three- Forgotten Realms Appendix (1989) "if it steps on something small, the giant beast inflicts 8d10 points of damage."​

The Apatosaurus (aka Brontosaurus) does 4d10 trample damage in the same sources.
*I italicize the dinosaurs' genera because a genus or species name should always be italicized according to the rules of taxonomy.

Of course, there's little consistency in trampling. An AD&D African Elephant does two lots of 2d6 trampling for 4d6 in total, but that's part of a five-attack multiattack:

Monstrous Manual (1993) "An elephant can make up to five attacks at one time in a battle. It can do stabbing damage of 2-16 points (2d8) with each of its two tusks; constricting damage of 2-12 points with its trunk; and 2-12 points of trampling damage with each of its front feet."​

A charging AD&D Rhinoceros is similar, making a triple multiattack with a double damage horn doing 4d6 or 4d4 plus two trampling forefeet for 2d4 each.

However, the most lethal trampling damage is a 1E AD&D Herd Animal stampede, which causes automatic death. By comparison, a 2E herd stampede does from 2d4 to 8d6 damage:

Monster Manual (1977) "As herd animals are not aggressive, they will stampede away from what they perceive to be the greatest threat to their safety. Humans or humanoids of about man-size or less, will be trampled to death if caught in the path of a stampede."
Monstrous Manual (1993) "If a herd stampedes, roll 2d4 for each creature in the path of the stampede who does not take cover (such as by hiding in a tree or behind a rock pile or wall). This is the number of herd animals trampling the exposed creature. Trampling causes either 1-4 hp of damage (camel, cattle, antelope, and sheep) or 1-6 hp of damage (buffalo) per herd animal trampling."​

So the 1d100 of a Krakentua is really hefty. It's 50.5 damage average is more than the 44 of a Brachiosaurus or 22 of a thunder lizard. That's slightly lower than the 55 average damage of a Reptilian or Humanoid Gargantua's 10d10 trampling damage, but they're Toho Godzilla and Kong expies.

 

[freyar]

In that case, I can go with the nonstandard 8d12 trample. Should we make it a different ability name, like Great Trample or something?

 

[Cleon]

In that case, I can go with the nonstandard 8d12 trample. Should we make it a different ability name, like Great Trample or something?

Huh?

We should only rename it if the ability works differently from standard Trample.

Doing a bit more damage than an average Trample isn't different enough to justify that. There are plenty of monsters whose trample does more than the default of "the creature's slam damage + 1½ times its Str modifier" but they don't rename the SA. Similarly there are lots of monsters that don't have a Slam damage listed who have Tramples that do more than their main melee attack.

Contrariwise, there are trample attacks that do +1 Str mod instead of + 1½ mod and they aren't called Lesser Trample.

For example, the SRD Elephant and the SRD Devastation Beetle:

Elephant
Full Attack: Slam +16 melee (2d6+10) and 2 stamps +11 melee (2d6+5); or gore +16 melee (2d8+15)
Trample: Reflex half DC 25. The save DC is Strength-based.

Devastation Beetle
Full Attack: Bite +104 melee (25d10+24)
Trample: A devastation beetle can trample Gargantuan and smaller creatures for 30d10+24 points of damage. Opponents who do not make attacks of opportunity against the devastation beetle can attempt a Reflex save (DC 90) to halve the damage.

Incidentally, I prefer the Beetle's description for Trample.

Thus:

Trample: A male/female krakentua can trample Gargantuan and smaller creatures for 8d12+## points of damage. Opponents who do not make attacks of opportunity against the krakentua can attempt a Reflex save (DC ##) to halve the damage.
​

 

[freyar]

OK, that will work for me.

Where are we on Imp Grab and Constrict? Normal Constrict damage?

 

[Cleon]

OK, that will work for me.

Updating the Male Krakentua Working Draft and Female Krakentua Working Draft.

Where are we on Imp Grab and Constrict? Normal Constrict damage?

I'm fine leaving the constrict at 2d6+6 as per the Working Drafts and using the standard descriptions for the Special Attacks, so have included that in the updates.

 

[Cleon]

Should we tweak the wording of the Krak's Full Attack lines?

They're currently.

Full Attack: 2 slams +41 melee (4d6+12) and 7 tentacles +41 melee (1d6+6) or 7 katanas +41 melee (1d10+6/19-20)

Full Attack: 2 slams +42 melee (4d6+13) and 7 tentacles +42 melee (1d10+6) or 7 katanas +42 melee (1d10+6/19-20)

But that could be interpreted as it making either a pair of slams plus seven tentacle attacks as option one or seven katana attacks as option two.

It could also mix-and-max tentacle and katana attacks if it wanted to, as in three tentacle attacks plus four katana attacks. I think we should mention that in the Tactics entry and change Full Attack to, say:

Full Attack: 2 slams +41 melee (4d6+12) and 7 tentacles +41 melee (1d6+6) or katanas +41 melee (1d10+6/19-20)

Combat
A krakentua can freely mix-and-max natural attacks and weapon attacks with its tentacles. For example, it could wield katanas with four tentacles and make melee or constrict attacks with the remaining three tentacles. A krakentua’s Improved Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting feats, combined with its natural abilities, allows it to attack with all its tentacle-wielded weapons at no penalty.

Tactics…​

 

[freyar]

That looks fine to me!

Regular kraken have darkvision 60 ft, so we can just stick with that, or we could, say, double it as you like.

I don't really see anything like DR in the original critter, but I could go for a small amount bypassed by magic. What do you think?