[L&L] Balancing the Wizards in D&D

[Tom Servo]

Then so long as both versions are options within the rules, we're good.

Yeah, but unless I am reading the latest L&L wrong, both versions are not going to be options within the rules. Your preference definitely looks to be the default. Great for you (I don't say that in a begrudging way), not so much for some of us.

 

[steeldragons]

I don't believe anybody said "needs". It's not in Mearls' L&L article. (That's what makes it a "strawman" by the way.) You've invented a position for people and then you criticize this imagined position.

I see. I've never really been able to remember what a "straw man" is. So you are, obviously correct in this point. Apoglogies, again. This time for using language that was too exact to my reading, not what was actually said. A true hazard, to be sure, of the interwebs.

I don't see how someone can apologize for something they don't think was insulting. Even if I'm the only one insulted by what you wrote, was it necessary for you to tell me that you don't think I should be insulted and then apologize that I'm too thin-skinned to handle what you wrote?

1) I didn't think I was apologizeing to your "thin skin". 2) Obviously, I thought it was...apparently, it wasn't.(?) hmmmm . No worries then? Your skin is adequately thick. confused:?)

Take my apology or don't. It's no sweat off my back. Again, I'm not here to argue with you. Find someone else.

--SD

 

[I'm A Banana]

I prefer a game where magic users can run out of spells. You don't. But this is actually an easy thing to modify to satisfy both of us.

That's really true, which is part of why this L&L is so odd to me. They don't HAVE to have a wizard with at-will magic, mechanically, so it's a stylistic choice. Someone at WotC loves at-will magic and is unwilling to accept a wizard without it? That's very weird.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Er, close.

Checking ye olde 1e DMG tells me that at 1st level everybody (MUs, Clerics, Thieves, etc.) has the same attack matrix except Fighter types, who are 1 point better. Fighters at 0th level are the same as all the other 1st-level types, and as no other class lists a 0th-level attack matrix it's easy to see how that could be misread.

Actually, every class hits ac 0 on a 20. The only difference is a fighter can hit ac -5 on a 20, wheras a magic user needs a 21.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Some of those balancing factors fell apart, though. Spell interruption was unclear and un-fun, and often got softened or thrown out.

Citation, please. After over 30 years of playing in dozens of groups, I've never seen anyone not use the initiative system, or at least casting times. It's hardly a wonder people think magic is overpowered if spell interruption is not used. As far as unfun, OF COURSE it's not fun. And to use my oft overused baseball analogy, striking out in baseball is not fun either, but I don't see anyone lobbying to remove strikes from the game.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Really, here's the difference as I see it. There are three visions of a low-level wizard:

1. The wizard has almost no magic. He can fire a crossbow or throw darts as well as a member of the town militia, and he can create one or two magical effects a day.

2. The wizard can create a variety of minor harmless magical effects at will, can create one or two more involved magical effects per day, and he can fire a crossbow or throw darts as well as a member of the town militia.

3. The wizard can create a variety of minor magical effects at will, some of which can even do damage that comes close to the deadliness of a town militiaman. He can also create one or two more involved magical effects per day. Because he relies on magic, he may not even carry a weapon other than a ceremonial dagger.

I'd be fine with either one or two. Three is right out.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I see this mostly as something that can be handled with classes.

Wizard = You know 6 spells. Choose 3 to cast that day. That is all you get.
Sorcerer = You know 1 spell. You can cast it 3 times a day. That is all you get.
Warlock = Every spell you know you can cast at will. You don't get strong spells, but you can cast all day long if you want.
Anyone = With a feat, you can learn a spell from someone else's class (wizards can learn a warlock at-will; warlocks can learn a wizard or sorcerer daily; etc.)

You can have at-will magic without mandating that the wizard class does it.

 

[wrecan]

I'd be fine with either one or two. Three is right out.

What do you mean "is right out"? You mean you wouldn't play the game that has 3 as an option? You mean you wouldn't play in a game in which the DM allowed such an option? Or you mean that's just not an option you would ever choose?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

What do you mean "is right out"? You mean you wouldn't play the game that has 3 as an option? You mean you wouldn't play in a game in which the DM allowed such an option? Or you mean that's just not an option you would ever choose?

Yes.

 

[Cybit]

Yes.

Hope you don't play 3rd Edition, because the reserve feats let spellcasters do just that.