[L&L] Balancing the Wizards in D&D

[Tom Servo]

But shooting little bolts of magic energy once per round - that just sucks the fun right out of the game?

I think a couple of us have expressed this, in different ways, throughout this thread. It is not to some people's taste. Do you not believe us?

 

[wrecan]

If it's going on at the table, it will break my immersion significantly enough to ruin my fun.

One of the options I offered was that it was in the game as an option that your table could reject! Go back and read the post.

 

[wrecan]

I understand that some people don't like crossbow wizards. I understand that some people don't like cantrip-attack wizards. I don't understand people who can't abide a game who has crossbow wizards or cantrip-attack wizards as an option in the game.

(Alternately, I don't understand why people would not bother to read a very short post that offers that as a suggestion before responding to it in a way to indicate they wouldn't want such an option to even be available. A discussion forum where people won't even read the posts to which they respond is useless. You might as well have a blog or stand on a street corner and shout at passersby.)

 

[Incenjucar]

One of the options I offered was that it was in the game as an option that your table could reject! Go back and read the post.

Some people do not want other people to actually have those options.

Modules are wrongbadfun.

 

[billd91]

Oh good grief.

SO snapping your fingers to perform universe-altering magic; gating in demons, teleporting across planes and raining meteors from the sky is perfectly awesome.

But shooting little bolts of magic energy once per round - that just sucks the fun right out of the game?

Who are you to judge? Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Some people do not want other people to actually have those options.

Modules are wrongbadfun.

That's really a difference. I want other people to have their badwrongfun so that I have a better chance of having my badwrongfun. Especially since my badwrongfun changes from time to time, and has sometimes been a minority taste.

 

[Libramarian]

Oh good grief.

SO snapping your fingers to perform universe-altering magic; gating in demons, teleporting across planes and raining meteors from the sky is perfectly awesome.

But shooting little bolts of magic energy once per round - that just sucks the fun right out of the game?

Let me try to explain why I'm not really into at-will blasty magic.

I don't like the idea of the Wizard doing everything in a wizardly way. I like each class having a distinctive and useful shtick, but I also like a significant portion of the game to treat all the classes as kind of the same -- as "adventurers". The first thing distinguishing PCs from commoners is that they're adventurers.

If I may draw an analogy with a imaginary modern military class-based game, I want all PCs to first be distinguished from commoners as soldiers are from civilians. Then you have a Fighter class with an assault rifle and a handgun, and a Wizard class with some grenades and a handgun. When they run out of grenades, they use their handgun. That establishes some sort of basic connection with the Fighter class that I find pleasing. I don't like the idea of a Wizard class that, when they run out of hand grenades, they start flicking little pea-sized grenades that appear to have a very similar if not identical effect to the handgun. And they have grenades on their uniform and their helmet is in the shape of a grenade, etc. That plays up the superficial aspect of their class flavor too much. It's goofy.

That is to say, in a rambling way, that for me the wizard's flavor comes mostly from the structural/gamist aspect of having a limited resource that when used has a dramatic impact. It's not so much the superficial aspect of their attacks "looking" magical. So for me, giving them at-will magical abilities muddles their class flavor more than reinforces it.

 

[Lanefan]

That's really a difference. I want other people to have their badwrongfun so that I have a better chance of having my badwrongfun. Especially since my badwrongfun changes from time to time, and has sometimes been a minority taste.

Whereas my badwrongfun is still exactly what it's always been: bad, wrong, and fun!

Lan-"but leave me out of the doubleplusungoodfun"-efan

 

[hafrogman]

If I may draw an analogy with a imaginary modern military class-based game, I want all PCs to first be distinguished from commoners as soldiers are from civilians. Then you have a Fighter class with an assault rifle and a handgun, and a Wizard class with some grenades and a handgun. When they run out of grenades, they use their handgun. That establishes some sort of basic connection with the Fighter class that I find pleasing. I don't like the idea of a Wizard class that, when they run out of hand grenades, they start flicking little pea-sized grenades that appear to have a very similar if not identical effect to the handgun. And they have grenades on their uniform and their helmet is in the shape of a grenade, etc. That plays up the superficial aspect of their class flavor too much. It's goofy.

And I guess the place where this falls apart for the rest of us is that wizards are pretty much defined by their inability to use a gun correctly. That is to say, they are just as bad at ranged and melee combat as any untrained commoner/civilian. Once they're out of hand grenades, they don't have a handgun . . . they have a slingshot.

 

[Elf Witch]

The reason I don't like at will for wizards is because of the nature of wizards in DnD. Wizards are not magical they learn formulas and then wield those formulas into arcane might.

I like the fact that wizards can in the right circumstances learn every spell in the universe and even make more. They do this because they are intelligent. Not because they have magic flowing through them.

I don't have an issue with wizards having little cantrips like prestidigitation or light non assault magics at will.

Now sorcerers and warlocks do have magic flowing their veins and and are more the candidates for at wills then the wizard.

Someone brought up Zed from Legend of the Seeker they call him a wizard but he is not a DnD wizard he is more like a DnD sorcerer the same with Gandalf he is a sorcerer not a DnD wizard he does not need a spellbook to throw magic around.