L4W Discussion Thread IV

[elecgraystone]

Looking backwards and saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" isn't a good argument.

I'd have to disagree with that too. We've put rules into place to facilitate just that. We allow extra picks when you retrain is the materials weren't available last time you leveled. In fact the basic WOTC retraining is saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" so you aren't stuck with old, less useful option. I don't see this as any different that changing a feat. In fact swapping out a multiclass feat alters the character a lot more that changing a +1 insight for a +2 insight.

As far as my being around when regions where added, I was. However it's not really fair to say I didn't ask to allow future background options not yet published. Even if I'd been like covaithe and not picked a region, we'd still be at this point, except I'd be asking when I could add a background benefit to my character instead of changing one. The problem still exists that PH2 type backgrounds have never been officially dealt with.

 

[renau1g]

*sigh* I'm not disagreeing re-training, not discussing it at all. Did I ever, even once, mentioned that I thought retraining was a bad idea? My point was there's a mechanism in place, hence why I left my first post with "That being said, if you used your once per level re-training to select a different benefit I'd be more inclined for that."

Ex. there's a feat in Dragon for clerics called Battle Cleric Armaments that grants light shield proficiecny and a martial weapon. If a PC cleric had taken light shield proficiency and that said "man it's totally better, I should be granted that because it "fits" me better" I would say to that player they can use their 1/level re-training to change it. Just like I said to you.

 

[elecgraystone]

Your comments are confusing renau1g. If you have no issue with retraining then why say this?

Looking backwards and saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" isn't a good argument.

I was talking about changing my background at level up and that's what you said in reply. (said that in my first post about it AND repeated it) Your last post and that quote don't seem to mesh.

While you may not have been talking about retraining, that sentence I quoted made evilbob and myself think you were. It's hard to read that and NOT think that.

To take your example, I was the cleric and asked if i could switch out my light shield proficiency for Battle Cleric Armaments at level up and you replied "Looking backwards and saying "stuff out now is better than stuff out then" isn't a good argument." Can't you see how confusing that was?

 

[Mewness]

Our retraining rule is different from the standard, if I recall correctly. (We can retrain one power and one skill and one feat on level up?) If we want to allow retraining backgrounds, where does that fit into the scheme?

Personally I don't have anything against changing one's background benefit as long as it fits in with pre-existing background fluff, extra background information discovered in the course of play, etc.

 

[renau1g]

That being said, if you used your once per level re-training to select a different benefit I'd be more inclined for that.

Requoted and bolded and made larger just so it's not missed. It seemed like you were looking for a freebie with just changing the background because you weren't digging it. If you're proposing using the retraining mechanism as your 1/level (or 2/level if a book has been released since the last level, but one must be from that new book) then I will re-iterate the above.

 

[evilbob]

Again: maybe there is some confusion with overlapping terms here. I think everyone who has posted has agreed that changing your mechanical background benefit on level up via retraining seems acceptable. Is that fair, or am I misrepresenting anyone? renau1g seems to be specifically taking issue with changing a character's background story. What elecgraystone seems to be saying, at least in my view, is that his situation is somewhat different; because of the "amnesia" background, he is not really changing his background story but merely adding to it. Adding to the confusion: when he adds to his background story, he plans to also change his mechanical background benefit, likely based on the story that gets added.

Is that a successful paraphrase? In the end, I think we're all saying the same thing re: mechanical benefit. The question elecgraystone is asking is more along the lines of whether or not it is ok to add to his background due to the amnesia exception. I'm not a judge but to me that seems fair. (It's a lot like "leaving your background benefit blank" as previously mentioned.)

 

[stonegod]

Judges: I know we have a backlog, but I just want to check to see if y'all received Incarnation's level up. Its not a rush (though he's in combat), but last time I sent one for level 3 it got ate.

 

[renau1g]

oddly I don't see it in my inbox, sent or deleted folders. When did you send it sg?

 

[stonegod]

Last week. Subject "L4W Character Submission: Incarnation" to l4w.judges.

 

[Kalidrev]

Sorry, SG, but I don't see it in my inbox either? And I know I'm not just "missing" it, because I have all L4W stuff separated from everything else. If it had come through, I definitely would have seen it. I wonder why your emails are getting eaten...?