L4W Discussion Thread V

renau1g

First Post
Which is why I'm not keen to give e-classes a generic encounter power because they will likely select the top tier power to get on top of their other goodies for being an e-class. A thief grabbing dazing strike is a power boost I don't think they need (having seen a couple thieves in action)
 

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FourMonos

First Post
I hate to sound negative for new ideas, but why are themes necessary? I guess my impression of the concept was they were introduced into a specific genre (Dark Sun) to bolster the characters to the intended challenges of the genre. Did I miss something where they were intended for all characters?
 

Walking Dad

First Post
You missed the announced of themes being in the Nentir Vale box and generic ones are coming in DDI.

But you are right, I don't see the need for allowing them here, either.
 

ScorpiusRisk

First Post
Themes are not needed.

However, I like them. They do add another layer to character richness. I do not believe they make characters particularly more powerful. We're talking about one, 1st level, encounter power and it opens up more choices as you level.

They were added to dark sun so they did not have radically limit and alter the classes they had on hand, like they did in 2nd Edition, to create the same flavor. Any campaign with rich flavor can benefit from themes.

I think if we're going to add themes, they're not worthwhile unless they add at least a little depth. The mechanic is of little worth on its own.
 

Walking Dad

First Post
Couldn't we add more flavor without giving out a free encounter power?

And it didn't work for Dark Sun. 90% became Noble Adepts for the powerful benefits, not because it was the right flavor choice.
 

twilsemail

First Post
Couldn't we add more flavor without giving out a free encounter power?

And it didn't work for Dark Sun. 90% became Noble Adepts for the powerful benefits, not because it was the right flavor choice.

I'm playing in a Dark Sun campaign with 12 PCs (2/player). One of which is a Noble Adept.

I've now run 2 other campaigns using themes and seen 2 other Noble adepts.

My math works pretty much directly counter to yours.

People really need to stop exaggerating the ammount of Noble Adepts out there. There are a few people left on Earth who play characters, not just sheets. I'm pretty sure we've got some on these boards.

If someone is going to game the system, they'll do with with or without that extra encounter power.
 

CaBaNa

First Post
If we do implement themes here in L4W, I like the idea of custom themes for the L4W setting.

It gives another option to characters for connecting themselves to the setting, many already do this via backgrounds.

If we could find a way to "generic" the themes like the way we did backgrounds, limiting their power, but broadening their fluff. That would be best.

That way any of the older characters could craft a theme around what they have already been doing, and new characters could craft a theme toward what they want to be doing.

The trouble with that, as I understand so far, is that themes are much more broad in their mechanical options than "+2 to skill, make a class skill, learn a language".

Maybe something like, no more than 2w, cannot daze, so on...

I don't have a clear concept for this yet, but the idea there.
 

JoeNotCharles

First Post
Couldn't we add more flavor without giving out a free encounter power?

And it didn't work for Dark Sun. 90% became Noble Adepts for the powerful benefits, not because it was the right flavor choice.

What makes Noble Adepts so great? All I've ever heard is, "The get an extra PP, which is basically an extra encounter power!" Which is true, but everyone with a theme gets an extra encounter power, so why is this unbalancing?
 

twilsemail

First Post
They've also got a Utility that lets that add 1 to a d20 roll (1d4 if you spend a PP) made by you or an ally. The wording isn't clear if this is before or after you know the result of the roll.
 

ScorpiusRisk

First Post
Themes are firmly in the domain of "half math, half art" as far as building them is concerned. I've built two recently, for different projects, and each one has required edits after I thought I was done.

I would not advise voting on any themes until people have had time to review them and suggest changes.

I would also not advise allowing any themes that grant an additional ability like the Noble Adept, though I agree with twilsemail that their proliferation has been greatly exaggerated.

Theme's (in my mind) should grant one 1st level encounter power, a role, a power source, and one additional power choice at 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th. They're attack and damage rolls should be triggered off of the characters' primary ability.
 

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