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4E Land of the Lost Judges (The Players' Manifesto)

Son of Meepo

Registered User
A few people (myself included) have submitted adventures for approval without response from the judges. Proposals have gone unanswered, new adventures don't have assigned judges, and the approval queue hasn't been touched in months.

I'm going to assume, for one reason or another, that the judges have abandoned the game.

If this campaign is to survive, we need to do something.

Option 1 - Immediately appoint new judges.

I am willing to do it, but I'll need a few more volunteers.

Option 2 - Forget the Judges

This would mean:

1. No adventure approvals. You want to run something, go for it. Let's just make an agreement that we won't hand out an artifacts that stick around beyond the scope of an adventure and found items are limited to PC level +4.

2. No adventure judges. This means that there is no more senior authority in a game that the DM (though DMs can always seek opinions from the community). If a game is abandoned by the DM then the players would only earn rewards for completed encounters and time rewards up to the point the game was last active.

3. No character approvals. Mistakes would be handled as they are discovered. I've played other shared world campaigns that didn't have approvals. The game didn't blow up because someone discovered they've been doing something wrong, even if they've been doing it for a long time.

Option 3 - The old judges show up.

Anyone? Anyone?
 

Neil1889

Villager
If the judges can't be found, then unfortunately Option 3 - The old judges show up isn't going to work.

So I think maybe, Option 1 - Immediately appoint new judges could be workable, but with adventure approvals and maybe, maybe not adventure judges active (I'm undecided as I type).

Character approvals could fall by the wayside, but it is really useful. I would have likely participated in the character approvals if I was bothered about subscribing to the offical online builder, though I freely admit I do need and appreciate some cover myself to pick up on useful options I don't have or silly errors, but the DM's have spotted some of those for me before.

Letting DM's grant approval for characters in their games would help, whether they be judges or not.

(Thanks for the heads-up, Son of Meepo).
 

Neurotic

Adventurer
I would like to see some oversight over adventures so SOME judges should be around. Rules questions can be solved by asking community. But DMs abandoning players...it means at least one other person has to have adventure and adventure quest XP sheet. Players cannot be for obvious reasons

Anything else goes (obviously, no artifacts without senior reviewer/judge consent) - DMs within their adventures may go whatever they like as long as the players are informed on custom rules up front.
 

Son of Meepo

Registered User
The last few adventures I saw that I was in that were abandoned, the judge had no idea what the xp values of the encounters were. I usually had to infer monster levels based on their game statistics and present an educated guess to the judge.
 

MetaVoid

Explorer
I would actually prefer number 1, but the boards are slow since the crash and there may not be enough knowledgeable people with enough free time.

So, #2 seems as logical solution.



And if encounter XP levels aren't known to the judges, then adventure format for submission needs to change in that DM either creates encounters in advance or sends the encounters to thread judge as he makes them (if he ends the adventure, he can give XP, if not, judge has all XP of the encouters to the point of abandonment.
 

Mewness

Villager
I think that anyone who actually has submitted an adventure and not heard back should just go ahead and run it. L4W needs more stuff going on.
 

jbear

Villager
I think that if L4W is to survive 2 is the only option.

If 3 were possible we would not be in this position. We cannot force judges to return. We have no control over this option and so it should be discarded.

1 is a possibility but I see it carrying the same issues that have lead to the present abandonment: time is precious. I would like to say that I could step up to judge but I just don´t have the time. Real Life happens. People come and go. Our community shouldn't be beholden to that.

Having slightly anarchic tendencies in RL, I think that 'ruling ourselves' as mature and intelligent individuals is the best option. Perhaps we could appoint some 'Senior Members' who could be consulted in case of a dispute. They could offer their suggestions for a happy resolution.

PC approval could be given by the DM that takes the lvl 1 PC on their first adventure. Yes, mistakes will happen, but they will be minor and spotted eventually. The important thing is we are playing the game we love and having a good time. The DM could also sign off on the treasure and XP at the end of the adventure. This should be sufficient.

When they join further adventures the DM of the new adventure would have the authority to correct any undetected errors and further validate the legality of the PC.

I like Son of Meepo's Idea about artifacts: They come into and adventure, then they move on when the adventure ends. And Noone can have a magic item of more than +4 their current level. Dms should strictly follow expected treasure levels though I think that special rewards should be allowed for especially good play or special in game story rewards. CrimsonFlameWeilder handled this very well with one of my PCs: The special reward only worked in his games. However other DMs cold opt to allow the bonus in their own adventure at their discretion.

We can iron out the wrinkles as we go.
 

Neurotic

Adventurer
. The DM could also sign off on the treasure and XP at the end of the adventure. This should be sufficient.
Good ideas, but the part above cannot be for simple reason that, for various reasons, DMs quit/disappear and it would unfair to players to loose the XP from encounters already passed just because DM cannot continue. That's why they should submit the adventures with XP per encounters or give encounter XP to somebody else (one of seniors/judges or simply ANYONE as long as PCs know who to turn to if DM is gone).
 

jbear

Villager
Or if an encounter is abandoned mid-way through it could be calculated as a standard encounter of the parties level in a worst case scenario.
 

Neurotic

Adventurer
Yes, but what if it's third or last encounter in the adventure? Unless XP is given after each, we get again back to the point that SOMEONE (not necessarily [MENTION=5656]Someone[/MENTION]) keeps record.

As I said, it doesn't have to be a judge or senior reviewer, may be simply someone DM chooses/asks
 

Voda Vosa

Villager
The dm could post the expected XP totals on an sblock in a new thread "ongoing adventures" or something like that, so that they don't get lost if the dm disappears. We are mature people who won't peek the sblocks.
 

fireinthedust

Explorer
Just interjecting: We could have standard XP amounts per quest and have "judges" who act as custodians.

That said, you do want some kind of... check in for consistency for the setting. If I want to blow up Daunton, or change the mayor of a local town, or add... a moon or something, what's to stop me?
 

MetaVoid

Explorer
Just interjecting: We could have standard XP amounts per quest and have "judges" who act as custodians.

That said, you do want some kind of... check in for consistency for the setting. If I want to blow up Daunton, or change the mayor of a local town, or add... a moon or something, what's to stop me?
You can do whatever you want within the adventure including giving out custom items...as long as you reset everything before you finish - custom items cannot work outside the adventure they were given in. Lack of judges makes this hard to enforce, but making even slight change would start an avalanche of changes that would be hard to track for everyone.
 

OnlytheStrong

Villager
Not to kick a dead dog here, but what's going on with L4W? Judges show up or what is the final verdict here? I was hoping to get back into this after about a year break.
 

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