Land Prices in Waterdeep

[Agback]

I too have had some difficulty dealing with real estate prices in D&D. Any general information about land prices in the high fantasy universe would be great.

Well, a good rule of thumb is that farmland or grazing land sells for 25 to 30 years' rent, and that residential real estate (subject to depreciation of the building stock, fire insurance, etc.) sells for one thousand weeks' rent.

The rent of farmland is equal to its production minus subsistence living for enough farming families to work it. The rent of housing is typically 25-35% of the income of the types of people who would live in it.

That is all in an orderly condition in which tenure of land is secure, warfare and dispossession relatively uncommon. If there is a significant rate of risk in real estate ownership, land prices will be lower. If society is unusually short of capital (and therefore unusually rich in rival investment opportunities), that too will reduce the price of land.

As a general rule, the price of a piece of land is roughly equal to

p = R / (i + r + b.d)

where R is the annual rent, i is the opportunity cost of capital (ie. the interest rate), r is the annual rate of risk, b is the proportion of the rent that is effectively paid for improvements rather than land and d is the annual rate of depreciation of the improvement stock.

You won't go far wrong using i = 0.03 (for a rich society) to 0.07 (for a capital-starved one), r = the number of invasions or civil wars in an average century, d = 0.03, and b = 0 for farmland and 0.7 for urban real estate with buildings in reasonable condition).

I know nothing about Waterdeep, but assuming that it is like enough to mediaeval London, figure that a typical labouring family has two working parents (each earning 1 sp per day) and two children on half wages, plus non-earning dependants. They will earn 21 sp per week, so a two-room apartment without bathroom or kitchen will bring in 5-7 sp per week. Guess that a typical tenement is three storeys with four such apartments on each of the upper storeys, and shops on the ground floor earning double rent. 80-112 sp per week. In reasonably good repair the place might sell for 8,000-11,200 gp.

Regards,


Agback

 

[jgbrowning]

Hey agback, where you get those numbers? you in the RE business or is that a reflection of historical trend and if so what time period? Im rather interested in this and would like to follow through...

thanks,

joe b.

 

[Arnwyn]

Here's the guidelines (refer to your City of Splendors box set for areas/buildings):

Class D buildings: Land = 5000 gp per 18' square lot/building site

Class C buildings: Land = 10,000 gp per 30' square lot/site

Class B buildings: Land = 20,000 gp per 30' square lot/site

Class A buildings: Land = 50,000 gp per 30' square lot/site

Modifiers:
Dock Ward: No change to price
South Ward: +2% to total price
Trades Ward: +5% to total price
Castle Ward: +10% to total price if south of Castle, +20% if north of Castle
North Ward: +25% to total price
Sea Ward: +40% to total price

If any side of the building is:
On a main avenue (pavement): +25% to price after ward adjustment
On a secondary avenue (cobblestones): +10% to price after ward adjustment
On a lesser avenue (corduroy/logs): +5% to price after ward adjustment
On a minor avenue (dirt road): No change in price

Note that the costs above are land only - actual cost for structures are extra. However, land costs include all applicable fees, including permits, preparation work, sewer connections, etc - everything needed to make the land suitable for immediate building - both upwards and downwards (sublevels).

"Yes, this makes real estate in Waterdeep horrendously expensive, but that's life in the biggest city in the North..." - Steven Schend

I added a couple of other things:

Outside of City Walls:
Within 12 miles of the city walls, land prices are 1/5 of the above, per acre. Between 13 and 25 miles of the city walls, land prices are 1/10 of the above, per acre. Beyond 25 miles is usually "free land" - settle and defend at your own risk!

The above is for Waterdeep and other metropolises (such as Calimport, Skuld, Athkatla, and Dhaztanar). For other large cities, base prices are 1/5 of the above. For smaller cities and larger towns, base prices are 1/10 of the above. For villages, base prices are 1/15 of the above.

Just some guidelines that might help...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Depends on whether or not a priest of Lathander thinks there's something fishy going on there. If he does, expect land prices to fall rapidly. On the plus side, you will be able to get a building build according to your own specifications - because there won't be anything left of the old building...

(Long story from my campaign... )

 

[Agback]

Hey agback, where you get those numbers? you in the RE business or is that a reflection of historical trend and if so what time period? Im rather interested in this and would like to follow through.

One source is the long-term pre-Industrial average reported in Adam Smith's "Enquiry into the nature and causes of the Wealth on Nations". The other is what I learned investing the residental property market. But I can't say I'm in the business any more, since I sold my last piece of real estate the week before last.

Regards,


Agback

 

[jgbrowning]

One source is the long-term pre-Industrial average reported in Adam Smith's "Enquiry into the nature and Causes of the Wealth on Nations". The other is what I learned investing the residental property market. But I can't say I'm in the business any more, since I sold my last piece of property the week before last.

Regards,


Agback

I've been passing up on Adam Smith's book.. perhaps ill look at it. Thanks!

joe b.

 

[Xaltar]

Those are some good pointers for land in Waterdeep.

I also got my copy of Stronghold Builder's Guide back tonight, and it has information on the costs for different levels of shops, inns and laboratory rooms that can be applied to any size building, including cottages and mansions in addition to keeps.

Some great information in there. And thanks for the information posted above. I think that I have what I need!

Adam Smith, the father of Economics! What a great source of reference.


Thanks again!

 

[Agback]

I've been passing up on Adam Smith's book.. perhaps ill look at it. Thanks!

Back in '85, when I was looking for a career, I set out to read the seminal works in as many intellectual traditions as I could lay my hands on. I read Harvey's "On the Ciculation fo the Blood", Darwin's "Origin of Species", Faraday's "Lectures", Machiavelli's "The Prince", Marx's "Capital", Plato's "The Republic", "The Symposium", and "Phaedrus", Keynes' "General Theory of Money, Interest, and Unemployment", Newton's "Principia", Epictetus's "Discourses", Herodotus's "Histories", Frazer's "The Golden Bough", Liddel-Hart's "Strategy", Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings", whatisname's "Book of the Courtier", Moses's Pentateuch, plus some Jung, some Levi-Strauss, some Chomsky, and a bunch of other things I can't remember now. " The Wealth of Nations" was the stand-out, both for intellectual content and for clarity of style.

So it is a book that I thoughly recommend. Get an unabridged version, and take it at an easy pace. And by the way, don't take it for an economic bible: it is a thrilling intellectual adventure, but there has been a lot of progress in analytical economics since 1776.

Regards,


Agback

 

[jgbrowning]

So it is a book that I thoughly recommend. Get an unabridged version, and take it at an easy pace. And by the way, don't take it for an economic bible: it is a thrilling intellectual adventure, but there has been a lot of progress in analytical economics since 1776.

Regards,


Agback

I just picked up "An economic history of medieval Europe" by Normon John Greville Pounds. It sounds good, and hopefully i'll get an idea about land prices outta it...

joe b.