Lankhmar - any good?

[w_earle_wheeler]

The Leiber books are, of course, awesome.

QFT

The Mongoose treatment isn't that great, however. I was really disappointed with the RQ book, doubly so because I was looking forward to the Lankhmar book.

The production values and price point aren't up to snuff for me. I might pick up the Lankhmar book for 50% - 60% off in a few years and ignore the rules crunch.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The original Lankhmar: City of Adventure supplement was quite good, IME: sufficient detail to run with the setting if you'd read the books, sufficient to push you to the books if you weren't familiar with them and liked what you read in the supplement. References: http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/lankhmar.html and http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/lm/lm-coa1.htm

I'm not familiar with the later versions of this book (the 2e repackaging was basically the same, I think, from a casual flip-through years ago, but I've never picked up the later 2e box set and other books).

I wasn't really all that happy with Lankhmar: City of Adventure in any of its incarnations, actually. It is my feeling that while it had lots of flavor, it didn't really set up any useful adventure hooks or give the DM much aid in running the city. It is the best Lankhmar supplement ot there (the 2e repacking accomplishing the same job, as you say), but that isn't saying much, IMHO.

 

[fusangite]

I think the new RQ system is adapted very well to Newhon. I don't really care much about art and maps; what interests me in a setting is (a) how well matched the rules are to the world and (b) what kinds of questions the books answer. On both fronts, I think Mongoose's RQ setting material both for Glorantha and Newhon is of a very high calibre.

One of the good things about old RQ that Mongoose has faithfully adapted is that there is a lot more material about how societies in the game look at ground-level, what the systems of relationships are in which people are enmeshed. Too often, setting material doesn't answer questions about what people do with their lives and how they interact with one another.

 

[fusangite]

Have any of the prior or the new Mongoose Lankhmar products been any good?

Yes.

Thougths on running a campaign there?

I bought the stuff because I'm an RQ junkie.

Is it lower-magic (please be)?

Yes.

Do the books by Fritz leiber seem any good?

No. They may tell cool stories but I don't like Lieber's style.

 

[Remus Lupin]

No. They may tell cool stories but I don't like Lieber's style.

This is a defiite YMMV question. During a great deal of his early writing, I love the wit and humor of his writing. If you read carefully, there's some great irony that he pulls off. I missed it the first time through, but caught a lot more of it on second reading.

On the other hand, from my perspective, some of the stories are pretty weak in terms of plot/narrative/character. For example, in one story, the follow a pretty girl down an alley, she turns into two warriors, they fight him/her/them/it, and then she/he/they/it disappears. That's the whole story. Not much of a story, frankly, but very well written.

 

[Kunimatyu]

This is a defiite YMMV question. During a great deal of his early writing, I love the wit and humor of his writing. If you read carefully, there's some great irony that he pulls off. I missed it the first time through, but caught a lot more of it on second reading.

On the other hand, from my perspective, some of the stories are pretty weak in terms of plot/narrative/character. For example, in one story, the follow a pretty girl down an alley, she turns into two warriors, they fight him/her/them/it, and then she/he/they/it disappears. That's the whole story. Not much of a story, frankly, but very well written.

The quality of writing is Leiber's saving grace by far. I've read a couple fantasy authors with better plotting and worldbuilding skills, but in terms of wordsmithery, Leiber is absolutely fantastic. I'd be willing to say that he blows Tolkein out of the water, for instance, when it comes to quality of prose.

If you think Dragonlance novels are awesome, this may not matter very much to you. If you're one of those who has trouble supressing their gag reflex when reading a lot of standard fantasy fare, Leiber will be a breath of fresh air.

 

[Sigurd]

In praise of Mongoose

Is it typical Mongoose? Slipshod and hurried?

Allow me to say that I really like Mongoose material. Some of their crunch has a great balance in my experience.

I love their Quintessential, Power Class & Conan Lines.

Also, despite what seems as a rather cynical thread, I want to voice my thanks for

A) Reviving the Runequest Milieu

B) Seeking out Lankhmar and releasing it. Cant let Thieves World have too much spotlight - I appreciate the choice.


They also produce one of the few continuing free ezines that has some worthwhile material in it.


Sigurd - who has no association with Mongoose Publ. beyond the respect they've earned in his eyes.

 

[RFisher]

I've got the old AD&D Lankhmar book. I've found it quite inspiring over the years.

I've never seriously considered running a Lankhmar game by the modifications to AD&D suggested therein, however. I think they'd work OK. I've just preferred to plop Lankhmar into an AD&D world or use a different system.

I'm interested in the Mongoose book but have reservations. I've not been very impressed by the quality of Mongoose products I've looked at. I was also put off by the way the author derided the TSR version on the Mongoose forum.

I haven't finished all of the F&GM stories, but I've loved the one's I've read. I'm constantly trying to bring even a shadow of their flavor into my fantasy RPG games.

 

[tzor]

I started with the AD&D 1st edition Lankhmar and when the 2nd edition Lankhmar came out I got that as well. I purchased a number of the TSR Lankhmar supplements, even one with a mislabeled “Forgotten Realms” cover on it. I can write for paragraphs about the good, the bad, and the ugly (oh were there lots of ugly) in the rules and the supplements.

If you are buying Mongoose’s Lankhmar for the “art,” I can guarantee that you will be disappointed. If you want to see a viable way to get the setting of Leiber to a game format, you will be very satisfied.

One of the things I see in Lankhmar is a very sincere attempt at bringing Leiber’s world to practical life. It is not an attempt (as really was the case with AD&D Lankhmar) to try to mold Leiber’s world to the game system or to create elements from whole cloth when they were not detailed in Leiber’s works. It is exceptionally cross-referenced with plenty of quotations to illustrate the various concepts with the style of Leiber.

Magic, under the system, can be divided into the practically useless, the exceptionally mysterious, and the outright vile. The basic spells in the core book is limited to the major spells that were used in Leiber’s works. Familiarity with the subject, hatred to the subject, even self inflicted wounds powers the vile black magic that in turn corrupts both the body and soul of the caster.

One interesting thing about the new system is the treatment of the deities, the general gods in Lankhmar, the general gods of Lankhmar (and the interesting suggestion that the gods of Lankhmar, as well as the Dead Master Thieves, share a similar element of lichdom and may not be the only ones of their kind in the city) and the former gods of Lankhmar whose temples are hidden under lock and key throughout the city and should probably remain that way.

Another interesting thing is the outright honesty. If you are writing a book based on the themes and elements of Leiber, you need to be honest in stating the simple fact that most of the stuff Leiber pulled on Fafhrd and the Mouser would simply be unacceptable to pull on players in a campaign. The writers are exceptionally honest in this area and suggesting other ways (mostly involving cruel railroading against NPCS) to get around the problem while keeping the style of the novels intact.

Bottom line: I would love to run a campaign based on the first book, although I would like to wait until the next two books before I give a definitive statement on my desire.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

Tables

Are the tables broken in this thread for anyone else?