D&D 4E Large Characters in 4E

[Baka no Hentai]

I apologize if this is already addressed in another thread, I've looked around for a while but have not found anything on it.

Does anyone who has had a chance to look in the books know how 4E handles large sized characters? Are they somewhat balanced now? Still power-houses? Do the books give rules at all?

The reason I ask is because my groups campaign setting (which we are looking forward to converting) has a few races that are large sized. I would like for them to remain that way, assuming that being large sized doesnt mean that you overshadow (no pun intended) the other party members.

 

[Spatula]

Haven't seen it addressed in the books at all. All of the playable races in the MM are Medium or Small. But size only really seems to matter for reach (which is less overwhelming than in 3e) and weapon size.

 

[Vempyre]

There doesn't seem to be any significant advantage or disadvantage to being either small or large in 4E beside which weapons you can use because of weapon size.

No bonus or penalties to AC, grapples or any related stuff. No sudden bonus to strength (or penalty for being small).

Being small or big doesn't make that much of a difference though large creatures occupy 4 squares so they are affected by difficult terrain easier but are harder to push off a cliff since they must be completely over the side to fall.

 

[Baka no Hentai]

Hmm, I guess in that case my question should really be "How much more powerful are Large weapons over Medium weapons?" Take the large sized equivalent of a Longsword, for instance.

My main worry is when looking at abilities that say things like 7W for damage, how drastic of an impact will the large-sized weapon have on that? (especially now that crits maximize damage)

I appreciate your help!

 

[Delekhan]

Here's the damage die conversion for bigger weapons:

One-Handed
1d4 > 1d6 > 1d8 > 1d10 > 1d12 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10

Two-Handed
1d8 > 2d4 > 1d10 > 1d12 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10


So most of the time the average damage increases by one point, or seven points when using a 7[W] attack. The biggest increase with a two-handed weapon is two points, using a heavy flail or a maul (2d8 instead of 2d6). Large creatures also treat medium sized two-handed weapons as one-handed, so you can get 2d6 one-handed damage using a heavy flail or a maul. (And they can't use medium sized one-handed weapons at all)

However, it's worth noting that creature sizes aren't necessarily the same as in 3E: minotaur (one of the playable monsters in MM), for example, is now medium-sized.

 

[Baka no Hentai]

Here's the damage die conversion for bigger weapons:

One-Handed
1d4 > 1d6 > 1d8 > 1d10 > 1d12 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10

Two-Handed
1d8 > 2d4 > 1d10 > 1d12 > 2d6 > 2d8 > 2d10


So most of the time the average damage increases by one point, or seven points when using a 7[W] attack. The biggest increase with a two-handed weapon is two points, using a heavy flail or a maul (2d8 instead of 2d6). Large creatures also treat medium sized two-handed weapons as one-handed, so you can get 2d6 one-handed damage using a heavy flail or a maul. (And they can't use medium sized one-handed weapons at all)

However, it's worth noting that creature sizes aren't necessarily the same as in 3E: minotaur (one of the playable monsters in MM), for example, is now medium-sized.

Ah very good to know! If the races in our campaign world still qualify for "large" size, an average of one extra point of damage per die is not bad at all. Thanks again!

 

[Spatula]

And the bugbear playable race in the MM can use weapons sized up one, so it's like a Large creature minus the reach. That mechanic was used a lot in 3.5 to represent "creatures that should be large but doing that would give them an LA, so they're Medium and can use Large weapons."

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I am considering an Arcana Evolved conversion, and I am not sure if I should risk giving the Giant race Large size by default or if it's to strong.

 

[Aegir]

The AE Giant doesn't even have large size by default in AE, so why give it in 4E? 4E size only seems to affect space and reach (and reach doesn't affect ability to deliver OAs, you still only threaten adjacent squares).

There is a monster ability called Threatening Reach that grants OA to the entire range of a large+ monsters reach, but the only comparable for PCs is the Polearm Gamble feat: paragon level, and grants CA when utilized.

So, large (and even huge) wouldn't necessarily be as game-breaking as it is in 3.x, but I'd still say what you do is give the race the Oversized ability, and create a pair of racial feats (paragon and epic tier, respectively) for size increases if you want him to have access to large and huge.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The AE Giant doesn't even have large size by default in AE, so why give it in 4E? 4E size only seems to affect space and reach (and reach doesn't affect ability to deliver OAs, you still only threaten adjacent squares).

Because the Giant not being large was most likely a game balance consideration, since reach was very powerful in 3E.

My current write-up makes Giants start at medium, and they can pick a Paragon Path to become Large and an Epic Destiny to become Huge. (But I don't know yet how to "flavor" the Epic Destiny, aside that I named it "Eternal Steward" )

Waiting for level 11 to become large, though, is a lot of time, which is why I am not entirely happy with this approach.

I should probably put the Diamond Throne conversion into the house rules forum, once I've got a little more to show.

There is a monster ability called Threatening Reach that grants OA to the entire range of a large+ monsters reach, but the only comparable for PCs is the Polearm Gamble feat: paragon level, and grants CA when utilized.

So, large (and even huge) wouldn't necessarily be as game-breaking as it is in 3.x, but I'd still say what you do is give the race the Oversized ability, and create a pair of racial feats (paragon and epic tier, respectively) for size increases if you want him to have access to large and huge.

Yep.