D&D General Large Scale Battles - How do you DM them?

[Werehamster]

I've never known players who join in to play D&D so that they can play mass-combat battles of armies-versus-armies instead of the personal exploits of their PC and immediate companions. D&D isn't well-suited to playing out large-scale warfare and when it DOES veer into that, it works best when it VERY carefully remains nonetheless focused on the actions of the PC's, NOT ARMIES that are clashing around them. When PC's are involved in massed battles it's the PC's personal exploits that matter for playing out at the game table. Results of armies tearing each other apart beyond the view of the PC's is something only needing to be described to players.

At best, when PC's of their own volition become commanders of armies and give up devoting game time to their characters and instead want to play their armies, then the game has come full circle back to its ORIGINS. It's not just up to the DM at that point, but everyone at the table needs to help decide how you are all going to handle it as a group, because honestly you ARE all now playing a different game than what D&D is built to be. Just my personal experience and opinion.

This is exactly why I posted the question. Because it does become something different than the norm. My focus is providing new and fun experiences for the older players, while the newer players get to do something unexpected, with their enjoyment at the center. All that being said, I agree with the core of your response wholeheartedly.

My approach is going to be focused on the PCs and what's happening around them. Chaos of battle, unexpected events, all while having a mission for them to accomplish and overcoming specific challenges on the way. The good news for me is that this is months away. So I'm dedicating a lot of time to how I keep the game fun and exciting, while providing something different for a couple sessions.

I appreciate all the feedback and having a clear direction of the overall approach to this is great for the preparation of what is going to change the landscape of the continent on a few levels.

 

[Quickleaf]

In my world, it's been 250 years the last big war between the Orc armies and the humanoid nation they attacked. There is rumbling that the Orc armies are re-gaining confidence and small skirmishes have been breaking out on the borderlands between the two territories. There is a definite possibility that there will be large-scale battles with armies involved.

I've been trying to wrap my head around how to run a game where the party is involved on the battlefield with hundreds of Orcs and Humanoids are running around all over the place and how to determine the ebb and flow of the battle. How many soldiers/orcs die each round? How to decide if the party is directly targeted? When is morale for each army decided to see if they retreat/surrender?

Have any of you done this type of scenario, and if so, how did you run it? Also, what worked and what would you do differently if you did it again?

Thanks in advance!

There are many ways to handle mass combat, depending on your group's tastes & the needs of the scenario / role of PCs.

I'll speak to the scenario / role question first...

What role do the PCs take in these large-scale combats? Are they leading the "good peoples" army? Are they grunts participating and taking orders? Are they independent actors / special forces attempting to achieve a specific objective independent of the surrounding melee?

Each of these has different needs:

• PCs in a leadership role need to have meaningful tactical choices about how to engage their forces, but you don't necessarily need to have stats for an "orc horde" (or even standard D&D combat) as their soldiers are doing the fighting for them, and what's being tested is their leadership acumen.
• PCs in the thick of the fight function more like the wargaming "roving heroes" who can operate independently or attach to a unit (for protection from missiles & to temporarily control/bolster that unit). I believe the Unearthed Arcana for mass combat presented an example of this. You'll probably want to employ standard D&D combat for the most part, with just a few twists.
• PCs who are involved, but have a specific objective independent from the mass combat (e.g. sabotage the siege weapons or get the diplomat inside the fortress alive), are probably actively avoiding combat. You want a list of "random battlefield events" that create complications (which narratively reinforce your conception of that battle) as the PCs go about their quest.

As for the tastes of your group...

Do your players want to focus on logistics and strategy of how to allocate troops? Or are they more focused on the big picture? Do they want to step back and play fantasy generals? Or do they want to be in the thick of things? Are they comfortable breaking away from the normal D&D initiative combat? Or do they prefer to stay within their comfort zone regarding combat?

 

[Stormonu]

I recently used the mob rules out of the DMG to handle a moderately large battle. The rules worked fairly well (though somewhat slow), and the PCs were running commando ops during the battle that had an overall effect on the war. Unfortunately, only one player was invested in the prospect of commanding the army, the others just sat back and let him handle commanding. Would have probably been better off just narrating the battle, but I was hoping that with the detail I was using I'd get across just how powerful the enemy really was, and what dire straits the coalition was in.

Another case of know your players, and use what works best for them.

 

[Voadam]

I ran one in 3.5 where a half million orcs invaded the extraplanar city where my high-level group was doing a murder mystery and trying to get through a gate under the city. The factions in the city (hobgoblins, fire giants) fought back while one faction (flying tiger men asherake) betrayed the city.

It was mostly big picture narrative and description. The party got into various fights as things happened (magical airship fight with tons of NPC asherakes, tons of NPC orcs of various levels including a 17th level barbarian one).

If I wanted to do party participation in the overall battle to affect whether a battle wins or loses without just full narration I might use the quick easy GURPS 3e rules for it, I would not really want anything like actual miniatures or mass combat rules to bog down my at the table time.

There is a d20 3.0 book by Avalanche Press on Ancient Egypt that had a short section on wars with a really cool section on some events you can roll up for your party during a battle.

 

[pogre]

It certainly depends on your table and what they enjoy. I have used narratives and full blown miniatures battles. For most tables I would use some form of narrative, but my current table enjoys a good mass combat game. I have a casualty recovery chart and there is little chance of them being outright killed in mass battle, but there is a chance.

Mass combat is almost always more dangerous - some players might not enjoy this. You have to know your table.