Last Saga preview: what's D&D's Starship Combat?

[Zaruthustran]

I think it's a good idea to translate commonly-used PC resources so that they work with uncommonly-encountered situations. Here's how the latest Sage preview introduced the concept:

The Saga Edition rules encourage that without forcing characters to invest large amounts of resources (such as talents, feats, and so on) into an aspect of the game that doesn't necessarily come up in every adventure.

So, what's the equivalent of starship combat in D&D? Those cool, dramatic situations that don't come up often, and when they do, in 3.5 they all too often merely showcase the mechanical inadequacies of the PCs?

Here's what I came up with:

• Riding / mounted chase scenes. Unless you're a Paladin, you're just not likely to have invested ranks in Ride.
  
• Ship voyages. In my experience, very few players spend precious skill points on "Profession: Sailor". Or any "profession", for that matter. How many Fighters play mercenaries or grunts in the Duke's army, yet don't have a single rank in "Profession: Soldier"?

In both these situations, most players will be useless / unable to contribute / unable to have fun. Only those PC specifically built for those two unique situations will have a chance to shine. Since these situations are so rare, those resources will be essentially wasted most of the time.

So, in what other ways can this Saga concept benefit D&D?

 

[Tumbler]

Having spent some time with Stormwrack and the Savage Tide, the only thing you really need Profession: sailor for is captaining a ship. More common skills like use rope, balance, tumble, climb, survival, and knowledge:geography can all contribute on a ship.

Now, if you are a heavily armored unskilled type, ships can certainly suck. But few people end up on a ship unexpectedly, so you can use magic to prepare pretty well. I let fighters lead ship weapons crews, so that makes it somewhat interesting.

 

[Michael_R_Proteau]

Well the transition form using heavy blasters ot ship armamemnts could certainly be paralleled from using martial weapons to using siege weapons such as a ballista and catapult, and siege warfare could be the ship combat parallel.

-M

 

[Ranger REG]

Well the transition form using heavy blasters ot ship armamemnts could certainly be paralleled from using martial weapons to using siege weapons such as a ballista and catapult, and siege warfare could be the ship combat parallel.

Don't know if they offer Martial Weapon (catapult or ballista) Profiency feat. They could offer it as Exotic Weapon feat, but it has been ruled (in Heroes of Battle) that an artillerist would need Profession (siege engineer) skill to lead his weapon crew to operate such a large weapon. In Star Wars, such a futuristic equivalent weapon and most of its functions are now automated and/or mechanically assisted so that it can be operated by one user.

Probably the only thing ships and vehicle can benefit from SECR is the Condition Track, which not only applies to characters but vehicles as well. After all, you're not only trying to sink the ship, but prevent them from escaping, which means disabling their capability to sail or row. You tore a hole an a sail, and they can't use the wind to properly move the ship, at not as fast as if the sail were undamaged.

 

[pawsplay]

So, what's the equivalent of starship combat in D&D? Those cool, dramatic situations that don't come up often, and when they do, in 3.5 they all too often merely showcase the mechanical inadequacies of the PCs?

Diplomacy.

 

[dmccoy1693]

If WotC is smart, they'll take a page from Exalted and include a Mass Combat system. The simple fact that you don't see alot of adventures or hear stories of PC's leading an army of 10,000 into battle is because there is no mechanic to do that. Hell, how often do you see a PC leading 100 troops? It is possible with the leadership feat, but most DM's will try to avoid it like the plague since a single round will take FOREVER without either some serious houserules or 3rd party products.

The problem with D&D combat as it stands right now is that a 20th lvl fighter has practically no way to equal a 20th lvl wizard. The wizard wins nearly everytime. Insert a Mass Combat system and some way for all the non-magic wielding classes to use it better then the magic wielding classes and that might level the playing field some.

Exalted has a Mass Combat system and it work well enough. Some don't like it (myself included) but it gets the job done.

 

[Ranger REG]

If WotC is smart, they'll take a page from Exalted and include a Mass Combat system. The simple fact that you don't see alot of adventures or hear stories of PC's leading an army of 10,000 into battle is because there is no mechanic to do that. Hell, how often do you see a PC leading 100 troops?

Not often since they don't want to lead an army.

 

[MerricB]

Not often since they don't want to lead an army.

Indeed, it's even more than that: it doesn't happen because it changes the game from a RPG to a wargame, and they're two utterly separate things.

See Heroes of Battle to how to do mass battles in D&D. It works because it keeps the focus on the PCs rather than the hordes of insignificant combatants.

Cheers!

 

[Ranger REG]

Indeed, it's even more than that: it doesn't happen because it changes the game from a RPG to a wargame, and they're two utterly separate things.

Or so do new-school roleplayers often remind me. Sighs. :\

 

[MerricB]

The genius of D&D was to change the wargame formula from each player controlling many units and figures, to the 1:1 ratio; this moves it away from being a wargame to a RPG.

Cheers!