Latest E-Tools Patch

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yeah, I noticed not all of the features necessarily make it in. I don't mind, particularly, as it was mostly an experiment to see how it worked.

I had to kludge the 3.5 Ranger anyway, putting it in as two classes (one with TWF abilities, one with archery abilities) to get the combat styles to work. Some of the feats don't affect the stat blocks, but they do print out on the feat list, which is cool enough. The capability is a bonus more than anything else.

 

[Vrylakos]

So if bonuses are stacking incorrectly, how useful is this product to me? I guess it will speed NPC creation, but I'll still have to jimmy the final stats... sigh...

Will these things be corrected eventually?

Vrylakos

 

[EricNoah]

Olgar Shiverstone, something to check: original eTools only had the adults of each dragon built. Does 1.2 have all dragons in? (I know the data had been subsequently added by fans, but was curious if it made it in to the final product)?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

All the dragon age categories are in. The monster section looks very complete (I didn't find any ommissions). I like the ability to take virtually any monster and add class levels to it (either built or by the generator) or with a couple of clicks advance the monster by HD; the short tactics blurb plus full special ability writeups in the stat blocks are a nice bonus, too.

I thought it was neat in the documentation that you've got virtually the entire text of the PHB and MM (though I'm wondering why the DMG was omitted, or if that's just the review copy I'm using).

It definitely has the potential to replace the four separate products that I use when preparing adventures and the like. It's kind of a toss-up for me right now; those products do some things well that eTools doesn't; eTools does things those products can't.

With the 3.5 data sets and other upcoming releases, though, I could see myself switching. It's almost there -- hopefully a few last minute tweaks can eliminate the last few rules errors (otherwise, one more patch).

Ironically it's taught me a lot more about the rules over the past day -- I keep seeing some skill bonus or penalty to which I say "that doesn't look right" -- only to flip open the PHB or DMG and find out: yep, they got it right - -little things like -2 penalties to craft checks for not having the appropriate tools equipped, and that sort of thing.

 

[EricNoah]

Ironically it's taught me a lot more about the rules over the past day -- I keep seeing some skill bonus or penalty to which I say "that doesn't look right" -- only to flip open the PHB or DMG and find out: yep, they got it right - -little things like -2 penalties to craft checks for not having the appropriate tools equipped, and that sort of thing.

Oh, definitely -- there's nothing like inputting a bunch of monsters to teach you all about the rules. Creatures with a Climb or Swim speed gain a racial bonus to those skills but it's usually not mentioned in the text. Some "types" are automatically proficient with certain weapon groups. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Mynex]

I thought it was neat in the documentation that you've got virtually the entire text of the PHB and MM (though I'm wondering why the DMG was omitted, or if that's just the review copy I'm using).

It's the review copy.

The Full PHb is indeed there, all nice and broken out into logical sections...

Neither the DMG nor the MM are completed in the review copy though.

The help files will be completed before the final 1.2 patch is released to the public (along with a better 'how to use' help section - maybe not much better, but we're trying to touch it up!)...

Hey! Wait a second! You didn't say anything about the new spiffy image of the main screeen!!!! *evil grin*

 

[elbandit]

It definitely has the potential to replace the four separate products that I use when preparing adventures and the like. It's kind of a toss-up for me right now; those products do some things well that eTools doesn't; eTools does things those products can't.

What four products do you use for preparing adventures?

 

[theoremtank]

More thoughts on the the eTools patch and the 3.5 revision...

I completely agree that CodeMonkey should make money for their hard work. But let me state what I see as a couple of facts and my issue with the situation.

Facts:
-Wizards of the Coast released eTools approximatley one year ago.
-eTools was unfinished but nonetheless they sold it.
-eTools lacked accuracy in its data (bugs far beyond a standard comercial software release) and therefore was unusable to many folks.
-eTools was never fixed and brought to an acceptable level of data correctness (few consider the first beta patch a reasonable fix).
-One year later we are finally expecting a patch which may bring this software into a usable state.
-Problem now is that the 3.0 data set is outdated and we are to be charged by CodeMonkey to upgrade to 3.5.

Resolution....
CodeMonkey should make money for their work on the 3.5 data set, but the eTools consumer should not be paying for it, Wizards of the Coast should. The financial burden needs to fall upon Wizards as compensation for selling their consumers unfinished software. This coming patch by CodeMonkey will be for most of us, the first official release of eTools. Thus it should contain the 3.5 data set at no cost to the consumer that already paid for a finished product. Wizards has not yet paid finacially for selling the eTools lemon to their loyal customer base.

I do however feel that the consumer should pay CodeMonkey for the other data sets they make available (but that is another post).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Hey! Wait a second! You didn't say anything about the new spiffy image of the main screeen!!!! *evil grin*

Sorry -- you'll have to wait for the review. Must say I prefer it to the Athach. Who puts an Athach on a title screen!

Good thing help is getting some help. Right now it reminds me of Microsoft help -- which isn't a compliment.

What four products do you use for preparing adventures?

Right now:

For detailed character creation & editing (anything that results in a full character sheet): HeroForge.

For NPC generation & classed monsters: Jamis's Buck's NPC Generator (available here on EN World).

For generic monster stat blocks: A custom text file with compiled stat blocks from the SRD (just cut/paste).

For random treasures (used seldom): Jamis Buck's Treasure generator.

I've a dragon generator, too, but don't use it often.

ETools definitely replaces the last three tools listed above. It doesn't handle random multi-classed NPCs, which is a strength of JB's NPC generator, but it does generate equipment and include that in the stat block (which JB doesn't), so ETools has a slight edge there.

As for character creation, I haven't decided what I prefer yet. Heroforge is nice in that you can do the entire character at once over many, many levels, still keeping each level separate in case you need to make a change. ETools has more features than HF, but they take more effort to use, and the ability to go back and make changes isn't there in many cases.

I need to go check out a recent version of PCGen, too -- the last version I played with was 2.8 (I think?), and I had a lot of issues with that version, but I know they've made a lot of changes and improvements since then.

'Course, I'm fairly familiar with VB and programming Excel macros, so hacking Heroforge is pretty easy, which probably explains my preference for it. You can modify a lot of data in ETools fairly easily (though some of the material is hard coded).

 

[Vrylakos]

More thoughts on the the eTools patch and the 3.5 revision...

I completely agree that CodeMonkey should make money for their hard work. But let me state what I see as a couple of facts and my issue with the situation.

Facts:
-Wizards of the Coast released eTools approximatley one year ago.
-eTools was unfinished but nonetheless they sold it.
-eTools lacked accuracy in its data (bugs far beyond a standard comercial software release) and therefore was unusable to many folks.
-eTools was never fixed and brought to an acceptable level of data correctness (few consider the first beta patch a reasonable fix).
-One year later we are finally expecting a patch which may bring this software into a usable state.
-Problem now is that the 3.0 data set is outdated and we are to be charged by CodeMonkey to upgrade to 3.5.

Resolution....
CodeMonkey should make money for their work on the 3.5 data set, but the eTools consumer should not be paying for it, Wizards of the Coast should. The financial burden needs to fall upon Wizards as compensation for selling their consumers unfinished software. This coming patch by CodeMonkey will be for most of us, the first official release of eTools. Thus it should contain the 3.5 data set at no cost to the consumer that already paid for a finished product. Wizards has not yet paid finacially for selling the eTools lemon to their loyal customer base.

I do however feel that the consumer should pay CodeMonkey for the other data sets they make available (but that is another post).

You know, I agree with this completely.
Months and months ago, I bought a program I have been unable to use.

Now I'm going to get a "free patch" at the same time the company abandons the edition of the game the program is useful for?

This is ridiculous and a slap in the face of the consumers who trusted WOTC to deliver a useful product a year ago.

Vrylakos