Lava Rules..

[Seule]

Or they would if it weren't for the fact that this is one of the many things I will be house-ruling should I ever decide to run D&D 4e.

Personally I'd wait until I see the final version of the rules before claiming I'm going to house-rule anything. Who knows which parts are going to be different, or optional? Not even the playtesters, I'd bet.

--Penn (not a playtester)

 

[MichaelK]

Personally I'd wait until I see the final version of the rules before claiming I'm going to house-rule anything. Who knows which parts are going to be different, or optional?

No, I agree. The rules could turn out to be completely different from what I think they will be. There are some things right now that I plan on houseruling, but it could easily be different in the final version than I imagine.

However, I will most certainly house rule any instant death effect out of 4e, just like I did out of 3e.

I will also house rule out any required "special move" to trip, disarm, grapple, sunder or other basic combat moves.

These things are the non-negotiable points for my game. No matter how well 4e works, these are not compatible with my player group.

 

[Seule]

However, I will most certainly house rule any instant death effect out of 4e, just like I did out of 3e.

I think you are in luck there, I'm pretty sure there's no instant death in 4e, and that's one of their core rules guidelines. Even the Sleep spell slows you for a round, and then puts you to sleep after that round if you fail a save, so you still get to act at least once.

I will also house rule out any required "special move" to trip, disarm, grapple, sunder or other basic combat moves.

I disagree with you on this one. I think special moves to do these things is the right way to go about it. How often in books do you see someone doing these maneuvers to a whole bunch of people in a row, or to the same person multiple times?
Now, I can see having basic maneuvers that anyone can do that are really hard to pull off (so they only work on mooks, basically), with special maneuvers that work more reliably. That would be fine too.
Basically, each of those maneuvers isn't a basic combat maneuver. Tripping, disarming, grappling someone who has a weapon, or sundering (basically impossible in the real world, BTW) are all highly specialized moves that take specific training to do without getting killed. Cinematically they have a place... as that cool maneuver you pull out once in a while. Done all the time they just become stupid.

In SCA combat, for example, how often do any of those maneuvers get pulled off successfully? I've never seen it (not that I've seen a lot of boffer-weapon combat). That's because it's usually more effective to just hit the person.

--Penn

 

[Tewligan]

Man, it's not looking good for my red dragons to rise from the lava, surrounded by magma elemental minions.

Well, that doesn't apply, though. Remember, the rule is "Fall in lava. Die. No save." In your scenario, the dragon is rising up and out, rather than falling down and in. It's not really clear what the different effect will be, but I imagine Sammichcon will be clearing that up in their next release, hopefully.

 

[Seule]

I can see a dragon going swimming in lava being somewhat like me at the beach (I live in Canada). Test the lava (water) first with a toe, then ease into it carefully to make certain you acclimatize to the heat (cold), then once you are in it's fine.
The main difference is in how useful a towel is afterwards...

--Penn

 

[MichaelK]

I think you are in luck there, I'm pretty sure there's no instant death in 4e, and that's one of their core rules guidelines.

I was referring to lava exposure.

I disagree with you on this one. I think special moves to do these things is the right way to go about it. How often in books do you see someone doing these maneuvers to a whole bunch of people in a row, or to the same person multiple times?

My priority on this one is when I run a D&D game for people who have never played it before and they eagerly exercise their creativity saying "I try to knock the orc down to the ground" that I don't have to say, "Sorry, you can't do that".

Now, I can see having basic maneuvers that anyone can do that are really hard to pull off (so they only work on mooks, basically), with special maneuvers that work more reliably. That would be fine too.

Well that's how 3.x worked and I liked it.

Basically, each of those maneuvers isn't a basic combat maneuver. Tripping, disarming, grappling someone who has a weapon, or sundering (basically impossible in the real world, BTW) are all highly specialized moves that take specific training to do without getting killed. Cinematically they have a place... as that cool maneuver you pull out once in a while. Done all the time they just become stupid.

If a person has expended resources to have the ability then IMO they are more likely to use it frequently.

And I've never needed rules to enforce a cinematic game. The players do that on their own. If they don't want to make the game cinematic then I'd question why it should be, since 80% of the participants don't want it to be.

In SCA combat, for example, how often do any of those maneuvers get pulled off successfully? I've never seen it (not that I've seen a lot of boffer-weapon combat). That's because it's usually more effective to just hit the person.

Well never, they're illegal in SCA combat. (If I remember correctly, I only went to a few training sessions). If you lose your weapon or get tripped the marshall will stop the fight.