Lava Rules..

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmm... Well you never know, we haven't seen the Red Dragon so it may have immunity.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Note, you would not really fall INTO lava, you would fall ONTO lava. Lava is too dense for your body to sink in-- just like a [inflated, not popped] baloon won't sink in a pool full of water, you won't sink into liquid basalt, but would float on the top. Of course-- you'd be ON FIRE, covered in the splashed lava-- so instant death I have no problems with!

Now wouldn't there be some variables here, such as the heat of the lava? I've seen video of lava coming out of Hawaiian volcanoes that looked liquid enough that I would expect anything falling into it to sink. Also, what about the force of the impact? Say a two hundred pound fighter falls into that liquidy lava? Would the force of the fall not force him down into it?

 

[VannATLC]

Now wouldn't there be some variables here, such as the heat of the lava? I've seen video of lava coming out of Hawaiian volcanoes that looked liquid enough that I would expect anything falling into it to sink. Also, what about the force of the impact? Say a two hundred pound fighter falls into that liquidy lava? Would the force of the fall not force him down into it?

Density, dude. Density.

Liquid basalt might be softer than rock, and gooier than rock, but its still damnably dense, and damnably hard.

If it *is* hot enough for you to sink in, you're going to be really, really dead from the fumes and heat long before you can actually sink into it.

Unless you fall from really high.

In which case, you're gonna splat any way.

Magma =/ Lava, either.

I'll hand-wave most of this away. My 95lb Halfling in Dragon-leather boots is going to run over that damn Lava flow, regardless. My 200lb Pound half-crazy fighter is going to hitch a harpoon to that Red Dragon and Ski on his shield >.>

 

[wingsandsword]

What do you do if for some reason a PC has an ability (class ability, magic item, spell, whatever) that grants them fire resistance (or the equivalent 4e ability) but not immunity, are they skill killed instantly? Are you still killed instantly unless you're completely immune to fire damage? Does the RAW acknowledge that fire-immune creatures can live in lava, or will we be hearing about DM's who literally reading the RAW have lava flows kill fire elementals?

I mean, I understand that immersion in lava should be fatal to mortal man, that's what the 20d6 of fire damage in 3.x is supposed to do, kill you unless you're truly superhuman. If for some reason you have enough HP to survive 20d6 (70 HP on average) then you're probably far superior to mortal man. Just like terminal velocity falling, 20d6 is supposed to be "you die unless of freak circumstances or insanely heroic fortitude and luck".

I'd actually been thinking of this all day, of how if you treat lava as you-die-no-save, it seems like the RBDM trick of 4e right out of the box to find ways to drop PC's into lava (or have lava dropped onto them) to instantly obliterate them.

It is amusing that they removed "save or die" effects from the game, but they found a way to add a no-save instant-death effect.

 

[BASHMAN]

Now wouldn't there be some variables here, such as the heat of the lava? I've seen video of lava coming out of Hawaiian volcanoes that looked liquid enough that I would expect anything falling into it to sink. Also, what about the force of the impact? Say a two hundred pound fighter falls into that liquidy lava? Would the force of the fall not force him down into it?

Yes, but he'd bob to the surface... like a ball in a swimming pool. I'm not saying lava won't instakill you, or even splash & totally cover you-- but you won't sink in it (at least not to the bottom).

 

[BASHMAN]

I'll hand-wave most of this away. My 95lb Halfling in Dragon-leather boots is going to run over that damn Lava flow, regardless. My 200lb Pound half-crazy fighter is going to hitch a harpoon to that Red Dragon and Ski on his shield >.>

I call dibbs on playing a Fighter in your next campaign!

 

[BASHMAN]

Does the RAW acknowledge that fire-immune creatures can live in lava, or will we be hearing about DM's who literally reading the RAW have lava flows kill fire elementals?

A creature immune to fire would die in lava because it would suffocate & be crushed under the weight of the stone if they were submerged in it somehow. However, they would likely float to the surface, upon which they'd be able to walk around (though it may be clumsy to walk on a moving surface... probalby require balance checks, etc.

 

[VannATLC]

A creature immune to fire would die in lava because it would suffocate & be crushed under the weight of the stone if they were submerged in it somehow. However, they would likely float to the surface, upon which they'd be able to walk around (though it may be clumsy to walk on a moving surface... probalby require balance checks, etc.

A big crazy creature like a Mature Red Dragon could likely swim in Lava, from a Displacement POV, and I would hope/Imagine that a Red Dragon's scales could resist the temperatures for a while.

No different to Scrouge McSmaug swimming through a massive pile of Cold Coins.


In any case, while suffocation is a valid point, Unless a Red Dragon's internal temperature is *hotter* than Lava (Which, admittedly, isn't always that hot) It is going to die of heat exhaustion.

 

[Derren]

In 4E no creature will be immune to fire. Red dragons, fire elementals, the god of fire (ok, maybe that one is immune) will instantly die when submerged in lava.

 

[jasin]

So, you die with no save now? So I could create various lava creation spells that can kill any monster or character without a saving throw?

I see this being broken.

If it is broken, then such a spell should be disallowed, shouldn't it?

And anyway, I still can't believe they're being serious about lava = instant death.