Leadership and ECL

[Corsair]

Say I have a Half Celestial Paladin 9 with 20 Charisma, and he takes Leadership.

What is his leadership score (assuming no other modifiers) and what is the maximum level cohort he can attract?

 

[Jack Simth]

I suspect that as written that's 14/7 - some SRD based support:

LEADERSHIP [GENERAL]

Prerequisite: Character level 6th.

Benefits: Having this feat enables the character to attract loyal companions and devoted followers, subordinates who assist her. See the table below for what sort of cohort and how many followers the character can recruit.

Leadership Modifiers: Several factors can affect a character’s Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base score (character level + Cha modifier). A character’s reputation (from the point of view of the cohort or follower he is trying to attract) raises or lowers his Leadership score:

(emphasis added)
and

Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level: To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.

Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character.

(emphasis added)
Thus, character level and Effective Character Level are different things, and Leadership specifically calls out Character Level, not Effective Character Level. Sorry.

Edit: Mind you, adding Leadership into what you use ECL for might not make a bad house rule.... but that's not for this segment.

 

[Corsair]

Ok, here is another one that bothers me:

What if I have a Bugbear Fighter 6. Is he considered 6th level or 9th level? He is ECL 10, but does "Character Level" only mean class levels, or are racial HD included?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The easiest way to handle the Leadership feat is to base it on ECL.

Thus, an ECL 10 character can, with a high enough Leadership score, attract up to an ECL 8 cohort. For most people, ECL = CL, and therefore the difference doesn't matter.

This was, I believe, clarified by an FAQ entry. I'll try and find it (for whatever weight it gives to the argument).

 

[Thanee]

Yep, ECL is effective character level after all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Corsair]

That is the direction I am leaning for a number of reasons, like dragons never qualifying for Leadership since they advance by age, not by class level (normally). A FAQ entry would be helpful if there is one however.

 

[Silveras]

The relevant pages are 3 and 6 of the FAQ version dated August 24, 2005.

Page 3 talks about calculating ECL and how it affects ONLY starting gold and experienced earned as you progress.

Page 6 talks about the ECL of a Cohort being what you should use to decide what is and is not an appropriate Cohort.

ECL = Racial Hit Dice + Class Levels + Level Adjustment

The LA part is the penalty; it is the "trade off" for a creature race or template getting "more special abilities than normal".

Generally, as a rule of thumb, you apply ECL as a penalty for most cases (the starting equipment being the exception). You DO count it so the character earns less XP from an encounter. You DO NOT count it when qualifying for Prestige Classes, determining Maximum Skill Ranks, and so on.

That being said, the Rules as Written come out as Jack Smith said: Leadership score 14, Maximum Cohort Level 7.

Of course, you are free to make whatever changes you like in your own game.

 

[Jhulae]

Of course, the problem is that the whole thing breaks down when you look at completely 'level adjusted' societies.

A 10th level Drow priestess should have an 8th level Drow bodyguard, not a 6th level Drow bodyguard. Nevermind when you get to a race with an even higher ECL.

 

[Corsair]

Of course, the problem is that the whole thing breaks down when you look at completely 'level adjusted' societies.

A 10th level Drow priestess should have an 8th level Drow bodyguard, not a 6th level Drow bodyguard. Nevermind when you get to a race with an even higher ECL.

That is part of the problem I'm dealing with. But I'm also unclear on races with racial HD. Is a Lizardfolk Druid 6 a 6th level character or 8th? Considering that HD can grant feats, I'm inclined to equate them for this purpose. Otherwise a dragon could never normally take Leadership.

 

[FEADIN]

That is part of the problem I'm dealing with. But I'm also unclear on races with racial HD. Is a Lizardfolk Druid 6 a 6th level character or 8th? Considering that HD can grant feats, I'm inclined to equate them for this purpose. Otherwise a dragon could never normally take Leadership.

The DRS says:

Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it

We can see that monster's hd belong to "a class", we can suppose that they are "real" levels for the character level, that's a little different from the level adjustment which come above all that to give the total ECL.