Learn about D&D organized play options

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

When are the modules going to stop sucking?

 

[keterys]

When are the modules going to stop sucking?

It's generally a good policy to not pose useless questions.

For example, you could cite what adventures you've played, why you didn't like them and/or what you look for in an adventure, and then ask which adventures (existing or coming) might help you out. That'd probably be more effective.

The more leading questions don't tend to work well: "When did you stop being an ax murderer?"

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Fair enough.

I've run, as official Encounters at a game store with players ranging from 'What's an RPG?' to 'bah, back in my day it was save-*and*-die, and we liked it!'.

Season 05: Dark Legacy of Evard (May - August 2011)
Season 06: Lost Crown of Neverwinter (August - November 2011)
Season 07: Beyond the Crystal Cave (November 2011 - February 2012)
Season 08: The Elder Elemental Eye (February - May 2012)
Season 09: Web of the Spider Queen (May - August 2012)
Season 10: Council of Spiders (August - October 2012)
Season 11: War of Everlasting Darkness (October 2012 - January 2013)
Season 12: Against the Cult of Chaos (February - April 2013)
Season 13: Storm over Neverwinter (April - June 2013)
Season 14: Search for the Diamond Staff (June - August 2013)

The store stopped running Encounters after that due to GM annoyance at the changes to the program and player indifference to playtesting 5e. We've since restarted with HotDQ.

Of those 10, only Beyond the Crystal Cave was what I consider 'good'. It had a story that, while derivative, was familiar enough to give newbies something to grab onto while still keeping things interesting for experienced players. It let the players make choices that had some impact on the story. It had clever and creative encounters with more than run of the mill monsters.

The rest ranged from merely 'ok' to 'what were they thinking'. The two Neverwinter modules, especially, were riddled with inconsistencies, bad plotting, terrible writing, boring encounters, railroads that would have made the Orient Express jealous, increasingly crappy presentation (reusing maps that had no bearing on the encounter, and eventually no maps at all), and most egregiously, encounters designed to deprotagonize the PCs in the service of a ridiculous story. The disgust on the players faces when they realized that they were expected to play second fiddle while an NPC saved the day. As an intro to the game, that's one of the worst things you can do.

And HotDQ seems to pick up right there -- bad presentation, bad writing, and what seems like a quick cut-and-paste without any regard for how to adapt the module to the idiosyncrasies of Encounters. And yet another 'unwinnable' combat whose purpose is...? To make the PCs feel like cowards if they do the smart thing and run?

I came back to running Encounters because I anticipated high demand, and for the first week or two we were turning people away, but it's arleady starting to taper off. I'll finish out the current season, but I don't know if I'll continue after that or go back to an 'RPG night' of different rotating games and players.

 

[keterys]

Much more helpful. I'll admit, I'm less versed in the Encounters seasons; helped playtest Crystal Cave and the first drow one with Elminster, DMed a couple of the earlier ones, but almost none of the others on your list.

I think you might be right that WotC isn't marketing correctly to Encounters. I agree it was a mistake to make HotDQ (or Murder in Baldur's Gate) these half-way products that are supposed to work for both home and Encounters, and frankly serve neither as well as a more focused product.

Fwiw, I think DDEX1-1 Defiance in Phlan would be excellent Encounters material.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Fwiw, I think DDEX1-1 Defiance in Phlan would be excellent Encounters material.

I've run four of the five missions in DDEX1-1, and I can vouch for them being a good fit for Encounters. Although they are intended to take one hour each, with inexperienced players I find myself barely getting through two missions in our store's three-hour time slot for Expeditions.

I think it's a great experience for new players especially to get through an entire adventure in one session. Alas, it's looking like I'll have to split the other Expeditions adventures into two pieces each due to our time constraints. Getting a table of six players through DDEX1-3 in three hours was painful, even if the players seemed to have a good time.

 

[Alphastream]

Of those 10, only Beyond the Crystal Cave was what I consider 'good'. It had a story that, while derivative, was familiar enough to give newbies something to grab onto while still keeping things interesting for experienced players. It let the players make choices that had some impact on the story. It had clever and creative encounters with more than run of the mill monsters.

Opinions differ very widely, but most of the feedback I've heard online and on stores has Beyond the Crystal Cave as one of the more confusing ones for DMs and probably lost the most players over the course of the season. I personally liked the season and really appreciate what the author was going for. Like you, I enjoyed the way it tried to help players impact the story. But, it was probably one of the least popular seasons.

And that's the thing. Take nearly any organized play adventure and you will hear completely opposite experiences. One player will say season X was the hardest ever, another will say it was the easiest. One player will say the season was story rich, another will call it a railroad. We can hopefully agree that Encounters has tried various approaches to writing the adventures and varied the experience significantly over time (compare the open play of Baldur's Gate to the linear story of the very first Undermountain season). If across all those changes nothing makes you happy, then I would recommend one of the following:

1. Take a different approach to the adventures
Adventures are tools. The end goal is to please the store, the players, and the DM. How you get to that goal is up to the table. The DM plays the largest role in this, interpreting the adventure and modifying it to create the right experience. For example, during a fairly linear and dry part of an adventure I added a door that could only be opened once the players, in character, did a bit of creative thinking or storytelling. It worked really well for the group. In another season I added an overlay of elemental religion to the dungeon, creating a richer theme and adding some puzzle elements so the players could enjoy the session more. The adventure was still there. I just made minor adjustments here and there to attain the type of play the players and I would enjoy.

2. Run a different type of D&D
You might try Expeditions adventures, run the Starter Set or Hoard of the Dragon Queen as a home campaign you alter to your tastes, or create your own home campaign. The point of organized play is to bring players together and create a community. This includes players deciding to be part of the community but play their own D&D campaigns.

3. Run something other type of organized play (perhaps both)
While I personally am a huge fan of D&D organized play, I like mixing that experience in with other organized play programs and other RPGs. Honestly, it helps me really appreciate what D&D and D&D Organized Play offer. Playing other RPGs and other programs gives me perspective and also keeps me fresh and enjoying D&D. Too much of one thing can wear us out, even if that thing is excellent.

You may also benefit from some other approach, because everyone is different. Where you find Heroes of the Dragon Queen to be really bad, nearly every review has been really positive - and not just the reviews by people with complimentary copies, but also the reviews by everyday gamers who purchased the adventure and are running it. How a DM approaches things really matters. I've played tons of amazingly fun adventures where, at the end, the DM admitted that they weren't the biggest fan of the adventure, but they gave it their all. On the flip-side, I've played games where the DM began with, "sorry, but this is a lousy adventure," and proceeded to provide us with a very lackluster experience... while at a nearby table another group had a great time with the same adventure.

My general advice to someone not enjoying an adventure is the following:

Look over there at that table having an awesome time playing the same adventure you are criticizing. What are they doing differently?​

 

[Warunsun]

Trying to keep this spoiler free as I haven't read any of the materials in any detail:

Does the Tyranny of Dragons adventures (at least the one out--Hoard of the Dragon Queen) actually intersect with any of the Moonsea region or the Moonsea Expeditions scenarios? I know that the Moonsea modules are considered part of the same encounter season but are they largely independent of Hoard of the Dragon Queen? Thanks.

 

[Alphastream]

Trying to keep this spoiler free as I haven't read any of the materials in any detail:

Does the Tyranny of Dragons adventures (at least the one out--Hoard of the Dragon Queen) actually intersect with any of the Moonsea region or the Moonsea Expeditions scenarios? I know that the Moonsea modules are considered part of the same encounter season but are they largely independent of Hoard of the Dragon Queen? Thanks.

They are a separate story as part of the same storyline. Tyranny of Dragons is the overall theme: Cult of the Dragon, Tiamat, and Thay all bringing a major threat to the Realms.

Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat are the two official adventures and the center of the story: played start to finish, they are the main story.

Expeditions is the story of the living campaign, told in the Moonsea region. During the Tyranny of Dragons, the story centers on how that threat (Cult of the Dragon, etc.) impacts the Moonsea. But, there will almost certainly also be central threats, politics, NPC developments, that are specific to the Moonsea. During other storylines the Expeditions adventures will reflect both the region and the new storyline.

Does that make sense?

 

[Warunsun]

Does that make sense?

Perhaps.

If you are saying that the Moonsea Expeditions scenarios are using the same factions and same power groups as Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat but are completely separate adventures from them. That is basically what I am asking. So Moonsea Expeditions is a separate and distinct part of the Tyranny of Dragons media blitz.

Thanks.

 

[Alphastream]

media blitz

Can I get a free eyeroll? ;-)

But, yeah, they are separate stories along the same theme. As an example I can now talk about, during the Epic I tried to write in the experience your PC would have as they first learned of some of the key points of the Tyranny of Dragon story: how the Cult of the Dragon was changing, how they came to receive support from the Red Wizards of Thay, how they were working with dragons and seeking dragon masks. Ostensibly, it could work as a nice intro to the HotDQ adventure. Completely optional, and it is on a different track, but it is a parallel track using the same overarching story. In fact, the dragon mask recovered at the Epic ties into the actual HotDQ adventure.

I suspect the Expeditions adventures will continue to do that, using the theme to create a story parallel, to introduce PCs to a new storyline, to add depth to the story in the official adventures, etc. Depending on your perspective that's completely optional or a cool and desirable part of the experience.

Back to that media blitz, while it all is designed to sell stuff (duh), it does really make me happy as author, DM, and player. A DM that ran the Encounters Thayan season had a bit more depth for running the Epic. A player that plays the Epic and then HotDQ can have a deeper experience. An author that writes for Expeditions but can read up on the official adventure can do more to expand on a story. These are really cool ways to increase the number of people that can grasp what a storyline is about. And, usually, without creating the imbalance that we saw in Living Greyhawk, where the depth was so great (and acquired only through hundreds of play hours) that people without it felt lost. This seems to have a nice balance between being useful and being complementary.