Leather jackets deflect bullets?!?

[Silver Griffon]

I don't know if this has been addressed before. If so, I apologize.
Am I missing something? A leather jacket gives a +1 equipment bonus to defense. That's fine for most melee or thrown weapons, but bullets? Also, plate mail would rarely stop a 9mm.
I propose the following house rule:
Impromptu and archaic armors are less effective against ballistic damage. Divide their equipment bonus by 2 and round down (minimun +0).
This would mean that the aforementioned leather jacket would offer no protection from a bullet. The plate mail would still offer a +4 equipment bonus, which I believe is still quite generous against a firearm.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?

 

[kreynolds]

They can "deflect" a motorcycle crash at 60 miles an hour, so why not?

 

[morrolan]

I saw a "Cops" type show the other night. Two officers pulled over a car with two passengers, one of which was an escaped con. As one officer was dealing with the driver, the con pulled a gun on the second officer. The second officer grabbed his own gun, and the convict ran, with the officer firing at him from basically point blank range. The convict managed to escape into a patch of woods, but was quickly apprehended. Once apprehended, the police saw that the convicts jacket had 3 or 4 bullet holes in it, from the cop unloading on him, but the convict was unhurt himself. The jacket at least gave him a dodge type bonus by flapping around as he ran, something plate mail would not do I'm guessing.

 

[Silver Griffon]

Re: Re: Leather jackets deflect bullets?!?

They can "deflect" a motorcycle crash at 60 miles an hour, so why not?

They might limit the damage a little, but they can't keep the road from hitting you.
That's why I think the idea of DR for armor that I see alot on these boards might be a good way to go instead of defense. But I haven't run or played in a d20 modern game yet, so I'm not willing to undertake such a large modification. Not yet, anyway. I think my proposal is a little less extreme. Do you have any thoughts on the balance implications, if any? How often does impromptu or archaic armor actually see use in a d20 M game?

 

[Moonsword]

Also, a leather jacket does make the wearer's body outline larger. Remember, an equipment bonus doesn't just reflect deflection qualities. It also reflects the absorbtion of energy (kinetic or otherwise is some cases) and the fact that the armor can also make someone seem bigger than they really are. This can throw aim off, and the bullet might go straight through the jacket, but miss the wearer. Just an idea.

 

[Silver Griffon]

The jacket at least gave him a dodge type bonus by flapping around as he ran, something plate mail would not do I'm guessing.

Kind of like a concealment effect by having his outline distorted by the (presumably) loose-fitting or flapping jacket?
hmmm...
I think I can buy that. Heck, that means Batman's cape gives him a +1 or maybe even a +2 impromptu armor bonus which would certainly explain alot of comic book scenes.
Definitely something to think about.
OK. But what about archaic armor? I think maybe its a difference between "cinematic" and more gritty realism.
I think I am now leaning towards starting the game as is and see if it becomes a factor.
Thanks for all the quick input, everybody!

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Leather jackets deflect bullets?!?

They might limit the damage a little, but they can't keep the road from hitting you.

In an abstract combat system, such as D&D or D20 Modern, whether or not the road hit you is irrelevant. Think of padded leather in D&D. If you get hit with a thrown dagger or a longsword, then I can understand your padded leather softening the blow. If you get hit with a warhammer, that padded leather isn't gonna do anything terribly noticeable. However, since the combat system is so abstract, none of that matters anyway. So, padded leather provides protection against "blah" and a leather jacket provides protection against "blah".

 

[Majin Cthulhu]

My father was a police officer, and I asked him the same question some years ago when I noticed a leather jacket providing protection in another system. He shared an anecdote with me about the reason a lot fo police departments started using larger shot sizes in their shotguns.
Apparently, at one point the NYPD used some smaller shot sizes in their guns, but when an officer fired 4 rounds at an escaping criminal wearing a long leather jacket, none of the pellets penetrated deeply enough to seriously injure the perp. The criminal managed to get away without even so much as bleeding. The jacket deflected and absorbed all the rounds fired at the man. Admitedly this isn't the best example in the world but it does lend credence to the theory of jackets providing a minute amount of protection. Of course its entirely anecdotal as well, and may not be true, but I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Henry]

I kind of like hong's theory on these things:

It provides a +1 bonus. Don't rationalize it too much.

 

[Moonsword]

I second that. Abstract ramblings are fine, but they shouldn't be taken too seriously. I might enjoy this, but no one should forget that the essential point is this: X armor provides Y bonus. This spell has that effect. The rules are the rules. They work. Why mess with them when they work? Realism isn't exactly integtral to the concept of 'game', anyway. It works. The system is balanced against itself, and to some degree, against the rules of logic. I'm happy. I just like abstract theorizing on the subject, and am prone to long-winded posts on ideas like this. Sorry if I offend.