Legacy of Acererak

[grodog]

Wow, I thought this was just going to be fluff about the Tomb of Horrors. I didn't realize this was actual stuff.

Is there any interesting/useful Greyhawk-savvy info about Acererak or Tomb of Horrors/etc. in the article?

 

[Drakhar]

Those heritage feats give a +2 unnamed bonus to a skill? Can you say power creep?

These kind of bonuses seem innocent because its to a skill, and people don't think about the power of skills until they see a really really big bonus in it.

Backgrounds. Heritage feats are something else.
Yes, quite easily. As mentioned, they are not feats, so they don't even cost a feat slot.
That's why I would not allow them to stack with racial bonuses. Perhaps the simplest way is to just make them "racial" bonuses as well. After all, the optional benefit for the Necromancer's Chattel background provides a racial bonus to saving throws against fear effects.

This tired old thing again? Didn't people complain about this when the article with the Scales of War backgrounds came out as well as when the FRPG came out? It's hardly power creep when every single character has access to the exact same backgrounds and the bonuses they give aren't all that overpowering. Now if someone wanted to maximize their skills focusing on one or two and chose a background to increase it, they can get fairly high numbers, does that make them over powered? Not to me it doesn't.

 

[FireLance]

This tired old thing again? Didn't people complain about this when the article with the Scales of War backgrounds came out as well as when the FRPG came out? It's hardly power creep when every single character has access to the exact same backgrounds and the bonuses they give aren't all that overpowering. Now if someone wanted to maximize their skills focusing on one or two and chose a background to increase it, they can get fairly high numbers, does that make them over powered? Not to me it doesn't.

It doesn't affect the PC vs PC balance, but it does affect the PC vs challenge balance. Suppose that instead of a +2 bonus to a skill check, backgrounds provided benefits like a +2 bonus to melee or ranged attacks, or to a selected defense. If every character selects a background, they will be roughly at the same power level, but the party will generally be able to overcome challenges more easily.

The PC vs challenge power creep for an unnamed bonus to a skill check is not as large, but it certainly exists.

 

[Spatula]

I would just make them feat bonuses.

 

[Engilbrand]

Keep in mind that the DM needs to OK backgrounds and stuff for everyone, which means that he's knowingly increasing the power. It's not power creep if it's an optional thing.

 

[FireLance]

Keep in mind that the DM needs to OK backgrounds and stuff for everyone, which means that he's knowingly increasing the power. It's not power creep if it's an optional thing.

Well, by that definition, nothing is ever power creep because everything is optional.

To me, "increasing the power" pretty much covers the concept of "power creep". To be exact, given 4e's level-based balancing, anything that increases the power of a character of level X relative to another character of the same level that did not have the option will create power creep. If the developers have done a good job, the power creep is so small that it is almost unnoticable. Otherwise, a DM who allows the option should manage the power creep (perhaps by increasing the level of challenge to the players appropriately) or offset it (perhaps by requiring the characters who select the option to pay some other cost, e.g. a feat to take a background).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This tired old thing again? Didn't people complain about this when the article with the Scales of War backgrounds came out as well as when the FRPG came out? It's hardly power creep when every single character has access to the exact same backgrounds and the bonuses they give aren't all that overpowering. Now if someone wanted to maximize their skills focusing on one or two and chose a background to increase it, they can get fairly high numbers, does that make them over powered? Not to me it doesn't.

There is a difference between "power creep" and "overpowered".

If I give the 3.5 Sorcerer a 3rd level spell that works like Fireball, but deals 2d4 points of fire damage per level, the spell is overpowered.

But if I give every PC similar options, I get power creep. I will note that PCs with these options will always fare better then PCs without them against the same type of monsters.

At some point, you risk "breaking" the system. If in 4E the bonuses that stack and add to a skill modifier change from approximately +10 at 1st level to +15 at 1st level (and the rest scales as it used to), skill checks from DMG 42 become too easy. A DMG x would have to introduce new DCs.

You can't avoid all power creep. Simply by adding more options you will allow better synergies. (For example - Come and Get it combined with any other Close Burst 1 Fighter power is pretty useful. Imagine you could have more powers like that, and all your powers were like that!)

 

[wedgeski]

Hmm, lots of good stuff here. Excellent synnergy with MotP, lip-smacking new crunch, and a preview of some PHB2 rules. Awesome art rounds it off. Backgrounds must inevitably be labelled 'power creep' because they add a source for mechanical bonuses which didn't exist before, and I personally do consider a +2 bonus to Skill Checks to be significant. Still, I'm a fan of new decisions to be made at character creation, even if it's simply the addition of a historically well-known optional rule. Oh, and I love Heritage Feats, aside from the extra book-keeping. That's some good stuff right there.

I hope that Tomb of Horrors gets the 4E treatment the same way that it got a 3E conversion. I've never run it before, and I 'd throw that dungeon as a 1-shot for my guys in a heartbeat.

 

[Ripzerai]

I hearby ban the phrase "lip-smacking crunch" from the internet. I prefer my oral allusions unmixed. Also, the image of someone literally licking their lips over game statistics makes me puke in my mouth a little.

Remember: metaphors are a privilege, not a right.

 

[francisca]

Remember: metaphors are a privilege, not a right.

I'm in awe. Truly.