Legend in Mist general [+]


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The different actual plays have revealed to me that you really need to bring in a lot if narrative play like the GMing advice of Daggerheart noted, and some Group Design - pejoratively known as description on demand, and I forget the real name but will edit once I have it.

That’s needed to speed up tag referencing. Otherwise in the actual plays without it people wasted time tag hunting and arguing tag context / relevance for action rolls.

If you give players good framing and let them help set the stage more, the tags flow out naturally according to the narrative and it goes smoothly.

If not there’s always one player who’s lost and another who’s trying to beat the tag odds.

But if you get them into the narrative they work more with the story, and in some of the longer actual plays for Otherscape - the same game system but a year older - you can see players go from struggling with it to working well with it over time.
Do you have any recommendations of actual plays of LitM that does this well?

EDIT: I think it'll be helpful to have the first post in of thread to have all the links to things. Kind of like a FAQ or Wiki page. Just a thought.
 


So, about tags and statuses: tags are for things (nouns, if you will: bad weather, slippery rock, keen eye for liers), statuses for transient states, that you can evaluate on a gradient (adjectives, in this framing: ill-3, joyful-4, pleased-1). It's not really a problem if you can't decide in some edge cases (that do come up from times to times), just pick either one, even though the mechanics are slightly different between the two. You'll get the hang of it.

Statuses of the same kind add up like so:
There are six boxes :1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. You check the box of the corresponding tier you get. So if something gives you on your guard-3, you check the box number three. If something adds to this later, like on high alert-4 or vigilant-2, you check the corresponding boxes, too. And if the box is already filled, you check the next box to the right (and to the right if this one is filled too, etc.) If you get to 5, it's so potent you're incapable of doing something else (so in this case, it should be phrased like so-paranoid-you're curled up in a corner-5). You're out for the scene. A tier-6 status means death or total and permanent transformation.

To tell if two statuses are of the same kind, well, you follow the fiction. It's pretty straightforward most of the time.

Choosing tags may be slow at first but, likewise, it becomes quite natural. Plus, it's not just arithmetics to come up with a number, it's a way to flesh out the scene more. By adding a tag, you're adding something to it, and you give a more precise frame for what will be a success and what consequences could arise. If you're searching the suspect's room with your tag I see dead people, you won't notice the same things as with your tag Wolf's snout. And a miss on the die won't have the same consequences at all.

Same with statuses that count for the roll (with the added benefit that only the most benefical and the most detrimental will count, so no use to inspect them all): a quick glance to the statuses currently at played should be enough in 95 % of the case to spot the relevant ones. For the last 5 %, the MC should take a quick decision and be done with it, unless the discussion relevant/not relevant is fascinating and adds to the scene (it can come up).

Hope this helps! This is really a game worth playing, but everybody has to be on the same page, obviously: unabashedly fiction-first, ready to hear the others and to play to find out.
 

My bad. I am bad at internet. Thanks for the bump.
Nah this keeps getting buried.

Despite being the number two seller on DriveThruRPG there seems to be very little hype for the game.

That said there’s a surprising number of actual plays out there. Especially if you expand your search timo include their other two older games - handy for seeing if the mechanics work even if the genres don’t appeal.

In my case their 3 systems happen to be my three favorite genres.

Give it a day and this thread will be buried again.
 

Appreciate the response!

I want to emphasize that I'm responding because I enjoy the discussion, and not to be a pain in the ass.

So, about tags and statuses: tags are for things (nouns, if you will: bad weather, slippery rock, keen eye for liers), statuses for transient states, that you can evaluate on a gradient (adjectives, in this framing: ill-3, joyful-4, pleased-1). It's not really a problem if you can't decide in some edge cases (that do come up from times to times), just pick either one, even though the mechanics are slightly different between the two. You'll get the hang of it.

The comparison tags to nouns & statuses for adjectives is difficult for me. The descriptor tags used for characters, though they may be written as nouns or noun phrases, feel more like adjectives.

For example, here are some tags used in the Gerrin one-shot: "stealthy step," "keen senses," and "good listener." They feel like adjectives to me:
  • stealthy step => stealthy
  • keen senses => perceptive
  • good listener => empathic
I also see examples in the rulebook like "strong as an ox," "wise," and "alert," which are clearly adjectives.

As for transience... I guess I'm that guy who is like what does it meant to be "permanent"? What does it mean to be "transient"? Gerrin is a spirited youth, but isn't youth transient?

But philosophical musing aside, I kind of understand...

A character with a "joyful" tag maybe someone who has a joyful disposition, whereas "joyful" status may get applied to a character who isn't fully of joy all the time. (Perhaps when such a character reaches tier-6 on joyful, one of the possible transformation is that they gain joyful as a tag?) Likewise, a character with a "ill" tag might be someone who has been sick for a very long time, i.e. not just suffering from a head cold.

Statuses of the same kind add up like so:
There are six boxes :1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. You check the box of the corresponding tier you get. So if something gives you on your guard-3, you check the box number three. If something adds to this later, like on high alert-4 or vigilant-2, you check the corresponding boxes, too. And if the box is already filled, you check the next box to the right (and to the right if this one is filled too, etc.) If you get to 5, it's so potent you're incapable of doing something else (so in this case, it should be phrased like so-paranoid-you're curled up in a corner-5). You're out for the scene. A tier-6 status means death or total and permanent transformation.

I appreciate the rundown—I wasn't really asking for an explanation of the mechanics, but thank you for taking the time to write this out. It's probably helpful for other folks jumping into the post.

I understand how to perform the mechanical steps of tracking the status, including the rule for filling in the next box, etc. But understanding how to do it doesn't alleviate the feeling of complexity, especially after the elegant elevator pitch "count the tags and add it to 2d6."

Status is definitely one of the parts of the system I'll have a tough time selling to my friends if I ever want to play with them. I would love a variant rule / hack for handling statuses, even if it means introducing something like an HP meter to the character sheet.

To tell if two statuses are of the same kind, well, you follow the fiction. It's pretty straightforward most of the time.

I hope so!

Choosing tags may be slow at first but, likewise, it becomes quite natural. Plus, it's not just arithmetics to come up with a number, it's a way to flesh out the scene more. By adding a tag, you're adding something to it, and you give a more precise frame for what will be a success and what consequences could arise. If you're searching the suspect's room with your tag I see dead people, you won't notice the same things as with your tag Wolf's snout. And a miss on the die won't have the same consequences at all.

Very interesting! As a solo player, I usually like to add checks for situations where there are stakes, and when I think of stakes, I naturally think about the consequences. You are saying the tags, which get decided after the challenge has been established, should also color the consequence. It feels a bit like ouroboros / chicken-or-eggs. I like it.

Same with statuses that count for the roll (with the added benefit that only the most benefical and the most detrimental will count, so no use to inspect them all): a quick glance to the statuses currently at played should be enough in 95 % of the case to spot the relevant ones. For the last 5 %, the MC should take a quick decision and be done with it, unless the discussion relevant/not relevant is fascinating and adds to the scene (it can come up).

Hope this helps! This is really a game worth playing, but everybody has to be on the same page, obviously: unabashedly fiction-first, ready to hear the others and to play to find out.

Thanks again for the discussion. I'll likely run a solo campaign, so hopefully I won't have the issue of everyone being on the same page... maybe.
 


I also see examples in the rulebook like "strong as an ox," "wise," and "alert," which are clearly adjectives.

I was mainly speaking of story tags (the tags added to a scene or a challenge) VS statuses. The PCs are made of tags (called Power tags), be it nouns or adjectives. Statuses are not here to stay, they are here to track, well, statuses. Temporary statuses.

Players can add (temporary) tags or statuses to their character by taking action, though. And obviously the MC can add tags or statuses to the scenes or the challenges, and deal them as consequences.

Status is definitely one of the parts of the system I'll have a tough time selling to my friends if I ever want to play with them. I would love a variant rule / hack for handling statuses, even if it means introducing something like an HP meter to the character sheet.

Do as you wish obviously, but you'd lose one of the main point of the system IMO: everything is a status, and everything can help, hinder or even get you out. It's one of the real strengthes of the system. I don't find them bothersome to be honest, and I used them for five years now, but maybe I'm missing something and I'm not in your head, for sure. One thing is sure, though: you'll have trouble down the line if you skip them entirely and will have to come up with something else. I'm sure better ways exist, but Son of Oak thought long and hard about that (they worked differently in CoM and were more fiddly yet) and their solution totally work, in my view. I would have trouble playing without, now, and even yearn to add them in all my other games when possible. They are super handy to deal consequences.

Very interesting! As a solo player, I usually like to add checks for situations where there are stakes, and when I think of stakes, I naturally think about the consequences. You are saying the tags, which get decided after the challenge has been established, should also color the consequence. It feels a bit like ouroboros / chicken-or-eggs. I like it.

You'll find a short solo run of mine here (in french, sorry):

I usually play with three to four players, though. I have long write-ups about CoM campaigns, but no one for LitM (yet).

Thanks again for the discussion. I'll likely run a solo campaign, so hopefully I won't have the issue of everyone being on the same page... maybe.

Happy to help.
 

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