Legends and Lore: you get one action...

[TerraDave]

Like last times, I like this better, as it is more concrete.

Of course, that doesn't mean I agree...

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (What Can You Do?)

 

[am181d]

Like last times, I like this better, as it is more concrete.

Of course, that doesn't mean I agree...

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (What Can You Do?)

Given that one of the complaints about various editions of D&D is that characters just stand in one place and hit each other, this doesn't seem like the best idea. Now, if you built actions around powers and those powers included specific amounts of attack and movement, that might address the issue. But that's just move + attack by a different name.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Given that one of the complaints about various editions of D&D is that characters just stand in one place and hit each other, this doesn't seem like the best idea. Now, if you built actions around powers and those powers included specific amounts of attack and movement, that might address the issue. But that's just move + attack by a different name.

Say rather that one of the complaints about the edition developed by Monte Cook is that you just stand in one place and hit each other and this seems like a really bad idea. Standing in one place doesn't matter so much if people go down fast.

 

[Mengu]

One action makes tactics difficult to use, and tactical aspects of the game diminish. Even in most modern board games, they realized "one action" is not enough, and players often get 2, 3, 4 or more actions, because you can create combinations, tactics, and other achievements that are more satisfying than to make a move and pray nothing gets in your way until your next turn comes around.

Educating players and DM's that there are 5-6 others around the table waiting for their turns, and to play in a time conscious manner, is currently paramount to a desirable game pace.

I think there is too much math and looking up of stats in the game. If they want to shave time off somewhere, they need to figure out ways to reduce that.

 

[Larrin]

The three actions you get in 4e are one of the easiest things to learn for most new players that I've seen. If nothing else, write it on a peice of paper and hand it to them, and they never ask again. Opportunity actions, immediated actions, those are confusing and occasionally time killers, but peoples turns are nicely done and simple, in my experience. The only thing that takes time is deciding what to do....and if you only have one action that time will go up (for those people). Especially if they get an unset number of free actions to switch weapons, open doors, drawn potions, etc that aren't worth that one action. One of the best things a DM has to drive the action is "You have no more actions, you can't light a candle and throw it down the well and redraw your wand, Std, move, minor, done! next turn!"

I am very happy with the current your-turn-action-economy. Regression to one action would be a loss without benefit, and thus not a choice I'd consider.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Minor actions are the killer... although a good Idea at first glance, it makes things too complicate. Or better said: having too many options for minor actions.
I guess, having two minor actions per turn would make turns go faster...

The most time consuming thing is deciding how to turn a move into a minor just to do,what you like to do in your turn...
There are too many things that you do with minor actions right now, so that your micromanagement is too high. I guess allowing only one action per turn will make it go slower, rather than faster.

 

[mneme]

Indeed. The "one action per turn" idea seems both well stated and wrong.

Going from "there are very few actions that are swift actions and you give up your immediate action to take one" of late 3.5 to "you get up to 3 minor actions each turn" of 4e was one of the big improvements (along with getting rid of full actions).

 

[fredal]

Personally, I think 4E went too far to the tactical side at the expense of role playing. Most of our session have been 30 minutes of progressing the storyline followed by 90 minutes of combat. With such long combats every battle, any momentum towards the storyline is dead. The campaign devolves into a series of skirmish encounters loosely tied together by some storyline that the players can't remember 90% of the time. I think this is why so many players / former players look at 4E as a non-role playing game.

I'm glad that they're recognizing combat length and pace as an issue with the current game. Something needs to be done to pick the pace up. I'm not sure if only one action a round is the right solution, but it's good that they're thinking out of the box for solutions. Having said that, I'm ok with the final battle being a 2-3 hour event - just not every battle.

Personally, I think it's more that users are overwhelmed by too many options compounded with escalating math / bonuses. Throw in massive HP creep in this version to compound it even more. I can remember a bit of this issue at higher levels in 3.5, but 4.0 takes it to the extreme.

We can make the statement that people need to learn to play, but when you're gaming with casual players who don't want to spend the time to optimize how to play their character this option doesn't really hold water. Also, it limits the market for your game, which goes against the ultimate goal for the new version.

 

[mneme]

fredal: you're not wrong, it's just that going to one action seems to be the wrong solution.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think 4E is good with the action economy, though Immediate reactions (both stripes_) and Opportunity reactions could use a bit of work.

The real problem is the no actions and free actions and he plethora of powers that work in those action spaces. It is just complicated with a few classes and builds that can abuse those kind of actions.

I know running 4E online is a real pain in combat because there are so many interrupts and actions that trigger off another action and so on. Opportunity attacks are easy to do, but sometimes combat has to be redone to a ridiculous degree because someone has a power that changed everything.

Overall, I would like to see Standard, Move, Minor, Opportunity and Free.

Keep it simpler