Legends & Lore: Live together, die alone!

cignus_pfaccari

First Post
In-combat healing is an abomination.

:)

Of course, it's required in 4e, especially now. You'd need to:

a) Reduce monster damage;
b) Reduce monster health;
c) Increase PC defenses;
d) Increase PC damage

in some combination to make in-combat healing not required. Basically, you'd have to kill them before they killed you.

Of course, let's say we do that, and there's no in-combat healing at all. Then, people are going to complain about bandaging after combats being unrealistic, or you're going to require some kind of magical healing, possibly in the form of one of the PCs, or possibly a stick with curing spells stored in it.

Hrm, that sounds kinda like 3/.5.

Brad
 

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delericho

Legend
Of course, it's required in 4e, especially now. You'd need to:

a) Reduce monster damage;
b) Reduce monster health;
c) Increase PC defenses;
d) Increase PC damage

in some combination to make in-combat healing not required. Basically, you'd have to kill them before they killed you.

All true. And it was true in previous editions as well, to a varying extent. For a theoretical 5e, I would like to see them at least consider the options for removing it.

(Also, bear in mind that if the party has no Leader, the vast majority of their in-combat healing disappears. It's not idea, but the game can run that way...)

Of course, let's say we do that, and there's no in-combat healing at all. Then, people are going to complain about bandaging after combats being unrealistic,

Nothing at all unrealistic about wounds being bandaged after combat. What is unrealistic is the lack of any form of persistent injury, and that's the same as in 4e.

or you're going to require some kind of magical healing, possibly in the form of one of the PCs, or possibly a stick with curing spells stored in it.

Hrm, that sounds kinda like 3/.5.

Not everything in 3e was bad. :)

FWIW, my view is that this is the only way that a hit point system can be consistent.

True. But IMO they should sacrifice consistency on this one. The "hit point damage" = wounds way of thinking is just too ingrained into the gamer psyche such that simply divorcing the two leads to all sorts of cognitive dissonance. It just doesn't work.

IMO, the best they can do is go back to the old model that hit points represent a combination of physical wounds together with luck, skill, divine favour, and so on. In 3e, when a PC takes hit point damage then he has suffered at least some injury (even if it's just a nick).

It only works if you don't look at it closely, but it does at least work. Completely disassociating hit points from wounds just seems to cause too many problems for too many people.
 

Balesir

Adventurer
True. But IMO they should sacrifice consistency on this one. The "hit point damage" = wounds way of thinking is just too ingrained into the gamer psyche such that simply divorcing the two leads to all sorts of cognitive dissonance. It just doesn't work.
I and several gamers I play with are living proof that this is not universal. Some folk may have a problem with it - but I'm sure that is true of many, many irreconcilable things in gaming.

IMO, the best they can do is go back to the old model that hit points represent a combination of physical wounds together with luck, skill, divine favour, and so on. In 3e, when a PC takes hit point damage then he has suffered at least some injury (even if it's just a nick).
That is just how I read HP in 4E; they represent luck, skill, divine favour, stamina and so on and so on - and then, after the "bloodied" level is reached, they represent that plus the odd scratch and nick. Whether those nicks and so on remain even after a creature is un-bloodied is a purely aesthetic matter, since the minor cuts and bruises represented won't affect a creature under the effects of adrenaline, anyway.

It only works if you don't look at it closely, but it does at least work. Completely disassociating hit points from wounds just seems to cause too many problems for too many people.
I can't help but think this is nothing more than an opinion - or have you access to some independent survey results that indicate this?

As far as I'm concerned, it's just "fluff". The Action Adventure genre being invoked does not have heroes suffer significant harm until they are hors de combat. The muck, blood and sweat daubed over them is for scenic effect, not to indicate in what ways they are damaged or inhibited...
 

delericho

Legend
I and several gamers I play with are living proof that this is not universal. Some folk may have a problem with it - but I'm sure that is true of many, many irreconcilable things in gaming.

No, it's not universal. But it does seem to be a very common issue.

I can't help but think this is nothing more than an opinion - or have you access to some independent survey results that indicate this?

No, it's just my opinion.
 

I have to go with Balesir on this one. I also don't understand why healing surge loss once you've been 'healed' is insufficient to represent the fact that you are still at some level 'wounded'. You can take a bunch of damage and keep going, that doesn't mean you aren't damaged. Short of some kind of wound system it is all 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

HS let you be threatened in each encounter and yet endure a day of adventuring. Pre-4e healing was just ass. Even if you think 4e healing is gimmicky at some level, pre-4e healing was worse. All it did was force the game into a conceit where magical healing was like asprin, and if you didn't have it you were deaders. It didn't work well at all and really spoiled a lot of the atmosphere, especially in things like low-magic settings. No, magic is RARE, well, except for these crates of healing potions of course! FEH!
 



cignus_pfaccari

First Post
Nothing at all unrealistic about wounds being bandaged after combat. What is unrealistic is the lack of any form of persistent injury, and that's the same as in 4e.

If we're expecting that bandaging a sword cut or a troll gore or a hill giant's tree-trunk-club bash is going to restore you to full hit points, then having a warlord use a nonmagical effect to do the same thing doesn't look really different.

Also, having simply a debilitating injury from being hit by a tree trunk swung by an irritated giant is, ahem, unrealistic at best. :)

Not everything in 3e was bad. :)

Of course. It taught me Excel, after all. ;-)

But the cure-stick really, really bothered me.

Brad
 


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