Pathfinder 1E Leif's Whirtlestaff's Wizards' Academy Reprise, [Pfdr] [OOC 03]

[Scott DeWar]

Thanks. And thanks for your help, too! Without you they'd still need names, and be overpowered for their spell levels.

But the L7 Supreme Magic Missile does an average damage of 13.5 at CL 13, whereas a L1 Magic Missile does an average damage of 12.5 at it's max of CL 9. There's still something hinky about that.

We May need to think about that then.

 

[Leif]

The easiest fix that I can think of would be to give the higher level versions some effect other than simple HP damage. Like a stun effect or ongoing bleed damage, or something.

 

[Scott DeWar]

The easiest fix that I can think of would be to give the higher level versions some effect other than simple HP damage. Like a stun effect or ongoing bleed damage, or something.

ooooo! You have given seed to a thought:

3 and 5 stand as is, but 7 and 9 you add another d4 and d6 of other energy damage respectively and the level 9 spell gives an added effect such as if acid is the chosen extra damage then sickened with no save for a period of time.

acid - sickened
fire - ?
cold - slowed
sound - deafened

 

[Lou]

Here is my first version, compared to Pathfinder Spells:

L3 Spell: Advanced Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L5 (another missile every 3 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L17); each missile: 1d6+3; range doubles

L5 Spell: Greater Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L9 (another missile every 4 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L25); each missile: 1d8+5; range triples

L7 Spell: Supreme Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L13 (another missile every 5 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L33); each missile 1d10+7; LONG RANGE

So what does that look like?

Wizard L5
1:MM 3 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 150 ft (damage range 6-15)
3:AMM 1 missile, 1d6+3 each, range 300 ft (damage range 4-9)
3: Fireball, 5d6, range 600 ft (damage range 5-30) REF/half

Wizard L9
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 190 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 2 missile, 1d6+3 each, range 380 ft (damage range 8-18)
3: Fireball, 9d6, range 760 ft (damage range 9-54) REF/half
5:GMM 1 missile, 1d8+5 each, range 570 ft (damage range 6-13)
5: Cone of Cold, 9d6, range 60 ft cone (damage range 9-54) REF/half (Note: considered an underpowered L5 spell in PF, see here)
5: Lightning Arc, 9d6, range 760 ft (multi <60 ft apart) (damage 9-54) REF/half

Wizard L13
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 230 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 3 missile, 1d6+3 each, range 460 ft (damage range 12-27)
3: Fireball, 10d6, range 920 ft (damage range 10-60) REF/half
5:GMM 2 missiles, 1d8+5 each, range 690 ft (damage range 12-26)
5: Cone of Cold, 13d6, range 60 ft cone (damage range 13-78) REF/half
5: Lightning Arc, 13d6, range 920 ft (multi <60 ft apart) (damage 13-76) REF/half
7:SMM 1 missile, 1d10+7 each, range 920 ft (damage range 8-17)
7: DB Fireball, 13d6, range 920 ft (damage range 13-78) REF/half

Wizard L20
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 300 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 5 missiles, 1d6+3 each, range 600 ft (damage range 20-45)
3: Fireball, 10d6, range 1200 ft (damage range 10-60) REF/half
5:GMM 3 missiles, 1d8+5 each, range 900 ft (damage range 18-39)
5: Cone of Cold, 15d6, range 60 ft cone (damage range 15-90) REF/half
5: Lightning Arc, 15d6, range 1200 ft (multi <60 ft apart) (damage 15-90) REF/half
7:SMM 2 missiles, 1d10+7 each, range 1200 ft (damage range 16-34)
7: DB Fireball, 20d6, range 1200 ft (damage range 20-120) REF/half

Wizard L30
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 400 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 5 missiles, 1d6+3 each, range 800 ft (damage range 20-45)
3: Fireball, 10d6, range 1600 ft (damage range 10-60) REF/half
5:GMM 5 missiles, 1d8+5 each, range 1200 ft (damage range 30-65)
5: Cone of Cold, 15d6, range 60 ft cone (damage range 15-90) REF/half
5: Lightning Arc, 15d6, range 1600 ft (multi <60 ft apart) (damage 15-90) REF/half
7:SMM 4 missiles, 1d10+7 each, range 1600 ft (damage range 32-68)
7: DB Fireball, 20d6, range 1600 ft (damage range 20-120) REF/half

I think this is playable in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

What do you think about color coding the different levels of Magic Missile? The basic MM would be red. The AMM would be yellow. The GMM would be green, and the SMM would be blue.

Looks like we we're not the first to suggest such changes, See here But I think the suggestions are TOO powerful.

 

[Lou]

What if you lift the limits on the spell, per each higher level, and increase the range? I think it deserves a slight damage boost.

L3 Spell: Advanced Magic Missile, 3 missiles at caster L5 (another missile every 2 levels, up to 9 missiles total at L17); each missile: 1d4+2; range doubles (typical L3 spell is maxed at 10 dice of damage)

L5 Spell: Greater Magic Missile, 5 missiles at caster L9 (another missile every 2 levels, up to 14 missiles total at L27); each missile: 1d6+1; range triples (typical L5 spell is maxed at 15 dice of damage)

L7 Spell: Supreme Magic Missile, 7 missiles at caster L13 (another missile every 2 levels, up to 19 missiles total at L37); each missile 1d6+2; LONG RANGE (typical L7 spell is maxed at 20 dice of damage)

So what does that look like? Is this too powerful at higher levels? YES IT IS, compare to the Pathfinder Spells in the previous post.

Wizard L5
1:MM 3 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 150 ft (damage range 6-15)
3:AMM 3 missiles, 1d4+2 each, range 300 ft (damage range 9-18)

Wizard L9
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 190 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 5 missiles, 1d4+2 each, range 380 ft (damage range 15-30)
5:GMM 5 missiles, 1d6+1 each, range 570 ft (damage range 10-35)

Wizard L13
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 230 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 7 missiles, 1d4+2 each, range 460 ft (damage range 21-42)
5:GMM 7 missiles, 1d6+1 each, range 690 ft (damage range 14-49)
7:SMM 7 missiles, 1d6+2 each, range 920 ft (damage range 21-56)

Wizard L20
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 300 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 9 missiles, 1d4+2 each, range 600 ft (damage range 27-54)
5:GMM 10 missiles, 1d6+1 each, range 900 ft (damage range 20-70)
7:SMM 10 missiles, 1d6+2 each, range 1200 ft (damage range 30-80)

Wizard L30
1:MM 5 missiles, 1d4+1 each, range 400 ft (damage range 10-25)
3:AMM 9 missiles, 1d4+2 each, range 800 ft (damage range 27-54)
5:GMM 14 missiles, 1d6+1 each, range 1200 ft (damage range 28-98)
7:SMM 15 missiles, 1d6+2 each, range 1600 ft (damage range 45-120)

 

[Scott DeWar]

wow, impressive! lv 7 spell at level 30 caster is almost a third of a mile.

 

[Leif]

Wow, Lou! Ok, you put me to shame, I have no intelligent response to your variant spells.

 

[Leif]

Mowgs

[sblock=Leif]The cold damage was the 1d6, so 2 points (the link in my previous post for Relos' damage breaks it down). So it's not DR/Magic, then, as all of Relos' natural attacks count as Magic. Hmmm.[/sblock]

[sblock=Mowgli]They do?? Shoot! Well, then..... No, wait, that's right -- it's NOT DR/Magic, it's DR/[something else]. Never mind.
[/sblock]

 

[Lou]

Here is my first version, compared to Pathfinder Spells:

L3 Spell: Advanced Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L5 (another missile every 3 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L17); each missile: 1d6+3; range doubles

L5 Spell: Greater Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L9 (another missile every 4 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L25); each missile: 1d8+5; range triples

L7 Spell: Supreme Magic Missile, 1 missile at caster L13 (another missile every 5 levels, up to 5 missiles total at L33); each missile 1d10+7; LONG RANGE

I think this is playable in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

What do you think about color coding the different levels of Magic Missile? The basic MM would be red. The AMM would be yellow. The GMM would be green, and the SMM would be blue.

Looks like we we're not the first to suggest such changes, See here But I think the suggestions are TOO powerful.

I just found the MetaMagic Feat Intensify Spell from the PF APG. By adding one spell level to a spell, the maximum dice of damage is raised by 5. It is useful for MM starting at level 11, making these new MM spells worthless until after level 20. It is useful for Burning Hands, etc. starting at level 6.

 

[Leif]

Wow, Lou, that is too cool! Thanks for the tip.