Leisure Time: Orcs, Humans, Elves, Dwarves

Nightfall said:
I prefer Slitheren! ;) That +2 racial bonus to Fort saves against poison and disease ROCKS plus most of them get +6 to Con AND between +4 and +6 Dex.

Well, that was certainly out of left field.

Nightfall, is there any chance you're beginning to take the "evangelist" part of your title just a bit too seriously? ;)
 

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Canis said:


Well, that was certainly out of left field.

Nightfall, is there any chance you're beginning to take the "evangelist" part of your title just a bit too seriously? ;)

Eh maybe. Would you feel better if I talked about dwarven subrace that was LE and had cleric as one of their favored classes?
 

Jürgen Hubert said:
Elves don't work! They "pursue artistic interests".

And really, where do you think all those tales of elves stealing human children and replacing them with changelings come from? Elves need someone to do the dirty jobs, after all, and they will charm the poor humans until the humans believe they are being done a favor

Of all the ways for elves to use magic to miracle up food and stuff, this is the only one I find myself easily conceding. Slave labor -- regardless of the type of slavery -- could do it for the elves. ;p

Of course, as well know because elves are "usually chaotic good," they would <I>never</I> oppress others. :)
 

Chrisling said:
Which means that, for orcs, it's that much faster to get to Miller Time and be sitting around the town square debating philosophy, carving statues and singing songs.

I perfer the Slayers Guide idea for Orcs, The play a nasty version of rugby with a skull as the ball. Beating the crap out of each other is perfectly okay as long as no armor is worn.

Then again there is the Orc outlook on life
1. Can I kill it? If so do it, if its too strong run away.
2. Can I have $ex with it? If so procced to try.
3. Can I eat it? If so eat it.

Three simple motivations for the common orc. Leaders are a little better off, but not by much.
 

Ruthlessness and social Darwinism

Canis' posts made me think. Military activity is a tremendous impetus to invention -- but it made me think more. It made me think about the stereotypical orcish culture.

Orcs are these incredibly violent, incredibly ruthless, fast breeding, strong creatures. Now, I'll concede they aren't the best in the brains department -- but, again, I ask, how smart do they need to be?

In a culture devoid of acknowledging pain is to be avoided, in a culture of constant challenge from every quarter -- both from within orcish society and from outside of it -- how many chances do the orcs get to do something really right in a really big way?

Following the thinking of Toynbee, what creates great civilizations is <i>pressure</i>. And out of the common races of the "average" D&D game, who's society is constantly under pressure? Whatever the list is, orcs are way, way up on the list of societies that have every reason in the world to achieve all sorts of excellence. After all, their lives depend on it.

So, I'm thinking that it might be the case that orcs -- due to the constant pressure they and others put them in -- might be very culturally advanced. Cultures that aren't as squeezed as the orcs -- just about everyone else -- don't have the reason to excel as much as the orcs do.

Just more to think about. :)
 

Re: Re: Leisure Time: Orcs, Humans, Elves, Dwarves

Cerubus Dark said:


I perfer the Slayers Guide idea for Orcs, The play a nasty version of rugby with a skull as the ball. Beating the crap out of each other is perfectly okay as long as no armor is worn.

Then again there is the Orc outlook on life
1. Can I kill it? If so do it, if its too strong run away.
2. Can I have $ex with it? If so procced to try.
3. Can I eat it? If so eat it.

Three simple motivations for the common orc. Leaders are a little better off, but not by much.

I haven't read the Slayers' Guide for orcs, so I can't comment on that.

However, I do challenge where it says the orc outlook on life is the three things you named. Where is it writ in stone that orcs must behave in anything like that fashion? Furthermore, as I said in my last post, the level of brutality, ruthlessness and cunning it requires to be a good orc might be an impetus to a remarkably advanced culture.
 

Chrisling said:


Of all the ways for elves to use magic to miracle up food and stuff, this is the only one I find myself easily conceding. Slave labor -- regardless of the type of slavery -- could do it for the elves. ;p

Of course, as well know because elves are "usually chaotic good," they would <I>never</I> oppress others. :)

Then maybe they act like pop stars or other celebrities: They are so stylish and popular that humans will bend over backwards to do their work! (And this can be taken literally sometimes...)

Even chaotic good elves might still see humans as a human might see a favorite pet...
 

Jürgen Hubert said:


Then maybe they act like pop stars or other celebrities: They are so stylish and popular that humans will bend over backwards to do their work! (And this can be taken literally sometimes...)

Even chaotic good elves might still see humans as a human might see a favorite pet...

This might be possible, yeah. *nods* I was going to say that if we're talking straight-from-the-book-elves that they don't have enough Charisma to do it . . . but then I realized that the whole thrust of this thread is deconstruction! I could see how even average intelligence, average charisma creatures -- given lots of time and cultural influence -- might sucker a whole species, or a couple of nations in that species, into being willing servants. And if the elves treat their human pets nice, hey, they get to keep their "good" badges. :)
 

Orcs would have high art and philosophy and such if it served a point to them.

...but the moment Grak starts carving the orcish version of Michelangelo's David, he'd get his green ass kicked from here to Elfville for being a pansy little man of questionable sexuality.

Orcs have no need for high art and the like. they don't need to carve their blades with pretty pictures. The blades are there to kill things, not look good. Why waste time making it look good when you could use that time to kill more things and get more stuff for when this stuff wears out?

More than that, they don't *want* high culture. Remember the legendary battle against the elves. The elves have high culture and the like. The orcs formally hate that crap...one might say they have almost a divine will to put an end to anything related to song, dance, and prancin' around in the forest like a limp-wristed weaver of lilly tiaras. Including any one of their own who tries that.

Orcs don't have access to metalurgy themselves, in general. They take what they can get from other people, or they hack together something of sinew, rock, bone, and wood. They probably can forge some simpler metals -- copper would probably be within their ability, and perhaps iron at the high end -- but anything else is scavenged. They're great at putting to use the "useless" detritus of others, because they thrive on it. Beating you upside the head with your old rusty axe is a pleasure that orcs all too rarely indulge in.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you've got the namby-pamby elves. Slave labor is fairly out because they value freedom so highly...so how do they get around?

Low metabolism would be the first thing. Elves don't have high sex drives, and don't have high activity levels in general. Somewhat cat-like, they lounge about for most of the day. Whoop-dee-doo. They don't need as much food as other races, and what they get they nab from the forest around them. Leaves, grasses, bark, berries, small mammals -- all go to feed the elvish hunger. The elves don't do anything that isn't easy. Even their hunters are lazy, using the bow which they are natrually talented in, and laying traps, instaed of actively hunting much of anything.

While lounging, thier minds are still active, though. In between a supper of squirrel and berries and the nighttime nap, elves are still thinking. And, mostly, they're thinking of how pretty they are. It often turns to ways to showcase that prettieness to others. Flowing script, carvings in wood, magical ways to accomplish mundane needs, dances, songs, and paintings...making these takes very little effort, and so elves are inclined to do it when well-fed. Being well-fed for an elf doesn't take a whole lot.

Plus, elves have a slight edge in that they only need half as much sleep as everyone else (mostly due to thier slow metabolism not needing as much recouperation time), so they can spend extra time pondering how to show that they're pretty and command the respect they so richly deserve.

That's how I see it, anyway.

And dwarves? Their leisure time is used *productively*, without *any* waste of time or energy. The war machine needs constant oiling, and doing labor is what a dwarf is happiest doing.
 

Chrisling said:


This might be possible, yeah. *nods* I was going to say that if we're talking straight-from-the-book-elves that they don't have enough Charisma to do it . . . but then I realized that the whole thrust of this thread is deconstruction! I could see how even average intelligence, average charisma creatures -- given lots of time and cultural influence -- might sucker a whole species, or a couple of nations in that species, into being willing servants. And if the elves treat their human pets nice, hey, they get to keep their "good" badges. :)

One thing that elves have on their sides are their incredibly long life span. So if they really want to dedicate themselves to a particular kind of expertise - like manipulating humans - they have no problem with spending a couple of decades to become really good at it.

And if you are doing away with the "good" part - or just concentrate on the elves who aren't good - you could see elves enter human realms just to play a game of politics against each other. Just like in Vampire: The Masquerade, but with less angst - and more blood...
 

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