Sanglorian
Adventurer
Woops, good catch! I've corrected that now ... although I'd like to know what the state of packmaking is in the Shrouded Lands.
Let’s Make a Hexcrawl Setting
- Thread starter Daztur
- Start date
Woops, good catch! I've corrected that now ... although I'd like to know what the state of packmaking is in the Shrouded Lands.
Daztur
Hero
New map: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4279/march10map.png
Note that the word doc I already posted is so insanely massive because a lot of the art is big pictures shrunk down to fit into the columns, the PDF condenses them down but the doc doesn't.
As for stuff about how to organize our vast horde of information:
Triskaideka: I'm agreeing with you here but kind of quailing at the amount of time that would take. When you have a large amount of information, organizing it became pretty labor-intensive and the more stuff you have the longer it takes to organize each individual bit. Also the nature of the setting can change pretty fast, for example I woke up one day and found out that there weren't any horses in the land so I had to add in some weird stuff to justify the warhorse market I'd already written in a week before
I have some ideas to make this work though, see below.
Sanglorian: it's not so much just the length is that we're long on ideas to spark adventure design and short on the actual nuts and bolts to run an adventure. But on the other hand it's hard to provide those nuts and bolts while maintaining system neutrality. Maybe we'll all fall in love with 5ed and want to stat stuff up for that, but I'm pretty meh on 5ed so far, as most people seem to be.
I'd have to disagree with you about the size of the setting, if anything I'd lean towards making it slightly bigger. We've got a LOT of individual polities and a massive range of terrain types for an area only slightly larger than England. But, I think that the six mile hexes works fine for gamability since that's a nice amount of size to reduce empty space without having people tripping over umpteen weird things at once.
OK, so here's what I'm thinking for organizing stuff:
-Keep the current compilation trucking as a sort of setting Bible.
-Strip general information out of the individual hexes and dump it in the appendixes, an expanded introduction, expanded region headers, etc. Will take some figuring out with the format but should be doable. I want to stop having major religions be subhexes of out of the way inns
-Gazetteers! Once some regions are mostly done (and it wouldn't take THAT much of a push to get some regions or at least sub-regions done, we have some pretty good-size clumps of hexes, pull information to write up a source book about that region. It could include what Triskaideka is talking about with more crunchy bits for reference in actual play. Maybe use the Land of Nod bits as a model. Hell, we have enough content to cobble together a Vornheim-ish book about Shuttered right now.
-Question: a LOT of our text is back story. Do we want to keep that in the individual hex entries or move that somewhere else?
-What to do with Shuttered, dead god, what to do with Shuttered? I suppose a lot of info can be stripped out and moved to the region header, but still there's so much stuff there, how to organize it?
For Appendix N, I note a lot of stuff in my hex entries but some of the biggest literary ones for me have been (aside from what Sanglorian has already mentioned):
-The Thirteen Clocks by James Thurbur
-The Dying Earth quartet by Jack Vance
-George R.R. Martin's science fiction short stories (which while not being fantasy fit the mood very very well, more melancholy and strange like this setting than grim and gritty like his fantasy series)
For blogs my three favorites have been:
-Playing D&D With Pornstars
-Rolang's Creeping Doom
-Monsters & Manuals
Many hexes have been cribbed pretty directly from those three.
Note that the word doc I already posted is so insanely massive because a lot of the art is big pictures shrunk down to fit into the columns, the PDF condenses them down but the doc doesn't.
As for stuff about how to organize our vast horde of information:
Triskaideka: I'm agreeing with you here but kind of quailing at the amount of time that would take. When you have a large amount of information, organizing it became pretty labor-intensive and the more stuff you have the longer it takes to organize each individual bit. Also the nature of the setting can change pretty fast, for example I woke up one day and found out that there weren't any horses in the land so I had to add in some weird stuff to justify the warhorse market I'd already written in a week before
I have some ideas to make this work though, see below.Sanglorian: it's not so much just the length is that we're long on ideas to spark adventure design and short on the actual nuts and bolts to run an adventure. But on the other hand it's hard to provide those nuts and bolts while maintaining system neutrality. Maybe we'll all fall in love with 5ed and want to stat stuff up for that, but I'm pretty meh on 5ed so far, as most people seem to be.
I'd have to disagree with you about the size of the setting, if anything I'd lean towards making it slightly bigger. We've got a LOT of individual polities and a massive range of terrain types for an area only slightly larger than England. But, I think that the six mile hexes works fine for gamability since that's a nice amount of size to reduce empty space without having people tripping over umpteen weird things at once.
OK, so here's what I'm thinking for organizing stuff:
-Keep the current compilation trucking as a sort of setting Bible.
-Strip general information out of the individual hexes and dump it in the appendixes, an expanded introduction, expanded region headers, etc. Will take some figuring out with the format but should be doable. I want to stop having major religions be subhexes of out of the way inns
-Gazetteers! Once some regions are mostly done (and it wouldn't take THAT much of a push to get some regions or at least sub-regions done, we have some pretty good-size clumps of hexes, pull information to write up a source book about that region. It could include what Triskaideka is talking about with more crunchy bits for reference in actual play. Maybe use the Land of Nod bits as a model. Hell, we have enough content to cobble together a Vornheim-ish book about Shuttered right now.
-Question: a LOT of our text is back story. Do we want to keep that in the individual hex entries or move that somewhere else?
-What to do with Shuttered, dead god, what to do with Shuttered? I suppose a lot of info can be stripped out and moved to the region header, but still there's so much stuff there, how to organize it?
For Appendix N, I note a lot of stuff in my hex entries but some of the biggest literary ones for me have been (aside from what Sanglorian has already mentioned):
-The Thirteen Clocks by James Thurbur
-The Dying Earth quartet by Jack Vance
-George R.R. Martin's science fiction short stories (which while not being fantasy fit the mood very very well, more melancholy and strange like this setting than grim and gritty like his fantasy series)
For blogs my three favorites have been:
-Playing D&D With Pornstars
-Rolang's Creeping Doom
-Monsters & Manuals
Many hexes have been cribbed pretty directly from those three.
Daztur
Hero
The Keep of Dreanach
Hex 15.11
What! No carnivorous apes! Must do something about that…
Pedantic redundant reminder: lordship in Thring generally goes from father to son in-law, not father to son. There are exceptions, but not here…
Lady Anghart was raised as the heiress of this rundown keep in the backwaters of Thring. In her childhood she had no eyes for the rotten wood and the mildewed tapestries of her home but only ears for the stories of the great men who had claimed the hand of her foremothers: bloody-handed villains, shining heroes, quick-witted peasants and even a renegade member of the Necromantic Office who somehow managed to sire an heiress. She swore that her husband would be her match in the saddle and at the board of a hundred worries and know all of her hidden desires without speaking a word.
Her father had other ideas. The werebears of Lochgate (13.10) were ever a nuisance with their demands that he send his peasants to build and rebuild their lodge each year and her father promised her hand to any warrior who prove himself able to defend the Keep of Dreanach against them. And so came Grimvlech the Smiler, down from some mist-soaked hamlet in the Grey Mountains, who brought down a great bear with nothing but his silver teeth.
But however great a fighter he was Grimvlech could barely stay in a saddle, even when sober, did not know the laws of the hundred worries and cared nothing for Anghart’s desires. So, without ever renouncing her inheritance, Anghart disappeared and her far more tractable sister wed the Smiler.
It was not long before Anghart’s father died and Grimvlech ruled Dreanach until one stormy night Anghart reappeared with a band of strange companions, stormed the keep and fed her brother in-law to a pair of carnivorous apes she had acquired from somewhere in the utter south. They are not all she has brought with her, she also has a strange staff studded with yellowed human teeth and bound with strange enchantments and a large supply of sex change potions that she had stolen from Isane the Beauty (19.31).
Thanks to those potions there is now a man worthy of Anghart: a tall blunt-faced Thringman with a hair style suspiciously-similar to her own. While doing her best to keep up the illusion that she has found herself a lover, Anghart has announced wedding plans and hopes to rule as Lord and Lady of Dreanach. Her sister is not pleased with this, but there is little that she can do her in tower cell.
Connection:
- Grimvlech the Smiler’s original teeth were lost in the Cornfields (03.30).
Hooks:
-Who or what is “Dreanach?”
-How could a member of the Necromantic Office father a child? Aren’t they all eunuchs? Do I want to know?
-For that matter is Anghart planning on having a child with her “husband?” Is that even possible?
-Any other interesting former lords of Dreanach?
-What is the board of a hundred worries? Some kind of board game?
-Where did Anghard get carnivorous apes and her tooth-staff? Who are her companions? What adventures did she have in the south?
-How is she planning to keep people from figuring out that she’s marrying herself? What are Thringish wedding customs like anyway?
-How have the Lochgates reacted to all of this?
-It probably wasn’t wise to steal from Isane the Beauty, was it?
-As long as Anghart was gone for more than a year and a day, what she did was illegal (see the laws of Thring). Is anyone in a position to do anything about that without getting fed to her apes?
Hex 15.11
What! No carnivorous apes! Must do something about that…
Pedantic redundant reminder: lordship in Thring generally goes from father to son in-law, not father to son. There are exceptions, but not here…
Lady Anghart was raised as the heiress of this rundown keep in the backwaters of Thring. In her childhood she had no eyes for the rotten wood and the mildewed tapestries of her home but only ears for the stories of the great men who had claimed the hand of her foremothers: bloody-handed villains, shining heroes, quick-witted peasants and even a renegade member of the Necromantic Office who somehow managed to sire an heiress. She swore that her husband would be her match in the saddle and at the board of a hundred worries and know all of her hidden desires without speaking a word.
Her father had other ideas. The werebears of Lochgate (13.10) were ever a nuisance with their demands that he send his peasants to build and rebuild their lodge each year and her father promised her hand to any warrior who prove himself able to defend the Keep of Dreanach against them. And so came Grimvlech the Smiler, down from some mist-soaked hamlet in the Grey Mountains, who brought down a great bear with nothing but his silver teeth.
But however great a fighter he was Grimvlech could barely stay in a saddle, even when sober, did not know the laws of the hundred worries and cared nothing for Anghart’s desires. So, without ever renouncing her inheritance, Anghart disappeared and her far more tractable sister wed the Smiler.
It was not long before Anghart’s father died and Grimvlech ruled Dreanach until one stormy night Anghart reappeared with a band of strange companions, stormed the keep and fed her brother in-law to a pair of carnivorous apes she had acquired from somewhere in the utter south. They are not all she has brought with her, she also has a strange staff studded with yellowed human teeth and bound with strange enchantments and a large supply of sex change potions that she had stolen from Isane the Beauty (19.31).
Thanks to those potions there is now a man worthy of Anghart: a tall blunt-faced Thringman with a hair style suspiciously-similar to her own. While doing her best to keep up the illusion that she has found herself a lover, Anghart has announced wedding plans and hopes to rule as Lord and Lady of Dreanach. Her sister is not pleased with this, but there is little that she can do her in tower cell.
Connection:
- Grimvlech the Smiler’s original teeth were lost in the Cornfields (03.30).
Hooks:
-Who or what is “Dreanach?”
-How could a member of the Necromantic Office father a child? Aren’t they all eunuchs? Do I want to know?
-For that matter is Anghart planning on having a child with her “husband?” Is that even possible?
-Any other interesting former lords of Dreanach?
-What is the board of a hundred worries? Some kind of board game?
-Where did Anghard get carnivorous apes and her tooth-staff? Who are her companions? What adventures did she have in the south?
-How is she planning to keep people from figuring out that she’s marrying herself? What are Thringish wedding customs like anyway?
-How have the Lochgates reacted to all of this?
-It probably wasn’t wise to steal from Isane the Beauty, was it?
-As long as Anghart was gone for more than a year and a day, what she did was illegal (see the laws of Thring). Is anyone in a position to do anything about that without getting fed to her apes?
Triskaideka
First Post
Actually, I like this option better. We keep the original hex entries as is for the DM, and make a Player's Setting Guide with compressed entries on all the general information they'll need for roleplaying.
Nellisir
Hero
I think I agree. Taking the big document and making it into another big document is less accessible than making it into multiple smaller documents.
Daztur
Hero
So basically three branching ideas:
-Improving the organization of the compilation.
-A DM-side document written in more traditional and concise hexcrawl format using Land of Nod or Carcosa as a format guide, either of the whole damn setting or of a specific region. While each individual hex isn't THAT long to read the whole thing is closing in on the word count of Moby Dick, which is a touch intimidating especially since it's all interconnected.
-A player-side document giving a more brief description of some or all of the setting.
So here's what I'm thinking of doing personally:
-March: just write more stuff, is fun.
-April and however long it takes after that: improve the compilation's organization and merge Sanglorian's appendix and my compilation.
-By then we should have at least one region ready for gazetteer treatment. Write up a short document for whichever region has the fewest holes in it with both a DM side and a player side document. Keep it short and easy to refer to. If all of the regions still have too many holes in them at that point, just do Shuttered itself as a standalone document, a bit like Vornheim.
Problem: how to organize a write-up of Shuttered? A lot of content but organizing it by mini city hexes seems silly. Also it's a lot more abstract and big picture than the "here is a map of some rooms you can run the players through RIGHT NOW" that Vornheim has, but maybe something in the same ballpark?
So maybe Shuttered for the first gazateer and, I don't know, maybe the Kingswood for the second? The Kingswood is pretty self-contained, throw in the Night Men and the Welt Road and it's a good bite sized setting. We could also do the Westmarches but that big chunk of hexes in the NW is a bit less cohesive and more of a random grab bag than the Kingswood.
So that's what I plan to do, if anyone else wants to put in some time squeezing some documents out of the setting compilation I'll help Most of you can write better prose than I can, I just make up for it by having a looooooot of time on the subway between my various freelance gigs (often three in different parts of Seoul in one day and then home) to plow through stuff.
Maybe also a monster book or a magic item/treasure book as stop-gaps? Dunno. As for treasure, yeah, we need more of it like Triskaideka says I've added some stuff here and there but it's gotten stretched pretty thin. Some of my favorite treasure write up is this series: http://daddygrognard.blogspot.com/search/label/a hoard for every treasure typewhich sadly only has four entries, I've stolen bits and pieces of it. http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com also has an interesting treasure feature that might be worth mining.
-Improving the organization of the compilation.
-A DM-side document written in more traditional and concise hexcrawl format using Land of Nod or Carcosa as a format guide, either of the whole damn setting or of a specific region. While each individual hex isn't THAT long to read the whole thing is closing in on the word count of Moby Dick, which is a touch intimidating especially since it's all interconnected.
-A player-side document giving a more brief description of some or all of the setting.
So here's what I'm thinking of doing personally:
-March: just write more stuff, is fun.
-April and however long it takes after that: improve the compilation's organization and merge Sanglorian's appendix and my compilation.
-By then we should have at least one region ready for gazetteer treatment. Write up a short document for whichever region has the fewest holes in it with both a DM side and a player side document. Keep it short and easy to refer to. If all of the regions still have too many holes in them at that point, just do Shuttered itself as a standalone document, a bit like Vornheim.
Problem: how to organize a write-up of Shuttered? A lot of content but organizing it by mini city hexes seems silly. Also it's a lot more abstract and big picture than the "here is a map of some rooms you can run the players through RIGHT NOW" that Vornheim has, but maybe something in the same ballpark?
So maybe Shuttered for the first gazateer and, I don't know, maybe the Kingswood for the second? The Kingswood is pretty self-contained, throw in the Night Men and the Welt Road and it's a good bite sized setting. We could also do the Westmarches but that big chunk of hexes in the NW is a bit less cohesive and more of a random grab bag than the Kingswood.
So that's what I plan to do, if anyone else wants to put in some time squeezing some documents out of the setting compilation I'll help
Most of you can write better prose than I can, I just make up for it by having a looooooot of time on the subway between my various freelance gigs (often three in different parts of Seoul in one day and then home) to plow through stuff.Maybe also a monster book or a magic item/treasure book as stop-gaps? Dunno. As for treasure, yeah, we need more of it like Triskaideka says I've added some stuff here and there but it's gotten stretched pretty thin. Some of my favorite treasure write up is this series: http://daddygrognard.blogspot.com/search/label/a hoard for every treasure typewhich sadly only has four entries, I've stolen bits and pieces of it. http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com also has an interesting treasure feature that might be worth mining.
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Daztur
Hero
And one more hex for today.
Oooooh, Abulafia has some great stuff as usual, stole some bits for this hex
Here's some if people want to see some treasure into the setting:
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=Swords
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=Treasure
Also a great treasury or random plot hooks here:
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=In_a_Wicked_Age
The Lornfields
Hex 14.11
Despite their name, the Lornfields mostly contains forested fields. It has not been inhabited for quite some time due to the local humans being wary of the werebears that live nearby (13.10) but old stone walls and foundation pits can still be found among the tres.
Since the trees have been allowed to regrow across this area, the Lornfields have grown eerily quiet with few deer and fewer birds. Lady Anghart and her "fiance" (15.11) plan to resettle the are after coming to an agreement with the bears and giving them a thoughtful gift of a drinking tankard made out of Grimvlech the Smiler's skull. Anghart hopes that if she offers generous enough terms she'll be able to round up at least a few dozen peasant families after her wedding.
What the Lady does not know is that some time ago a demon fell from the blackness behind the stars (22.10) into a hidden tar pit and remains there still, it's dark thoughts lashing out from its prison.
Hooks:
-Will Lady Anghart find it easy to make peace with the bears?
-What's the deal with the demon? What sort of demons hatch out of meteorites anyway?
Oooooh, Abulafia has some great stuff as usual, stole some bits for this hex
Here's some if people want to see some treasure into the setting:
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=Swords
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=Treasure
Also a great treasury or random plot hooks here:
http://www.random-generator.com/index.php?title=In_a_Wicked_Age
The Lornfields
Hex 14.11
Despite their name, the Lornfields mostly contains forested fields. It has not been inhabited for quite some time due to the local humans being wary of the werebears that live nearby (13.10) but old stone walls and foundation pits can still be found among the tres.
Since the trees have been allowed to regrow across this area, the Lornfields have grown eerily quiet with few deer and fewer birds. Lady Anghart and her "fiance" (15.11) plan to resettle the are after coming to an agreement with the bears and giving them a thoughtful gift of a drinking tankard made out of Grimvlech the Smiler's skull. Anghart hopes that if she offers generous enough terms she'll be able to round up at least a few dozen peasant families after her wedding.
What the Lady does not know is that some time ago a demon fell from the blackness behind the stars (22.10) into a hidden tar pit and remains there still, it's dark thoughts lashing out from its prison.
Hooks:
-Will Lady Anghart find it easy to make peace with the bears?
-What's the deal with the demon? What sort of demons hatch out of meteorites anyway?
Sanglorian
Adventurer
I've cut up and reorganised The Hills of Gore to give a rough outline of how I imagine the compilation being reworked. As you can see, some content gets pushed to the front of the region description, other content gets put in appendices at the back of the book, and the rest stays in hex descriptions.
I personally wouldn't get use out of a document with more traditional and concise hex entries, but others might of course.
I don't think player side documents would hurt either. One thing I was thinking is that GMs (or us) could compile player's guides around particular campaigns. So if you're running a game about the Hoard plotting to drive the orcs out of the North, you'd cut-and-paste content relating to that into a new document, remove the secrets, etc.
I'm a bit wary that writing up a region in 'gazetteer' format might 'fix' that region in place, instead of encouraging people to build on it. One thing I like about the player's guides is that there's clearly so much more out there that you don't know, and that you can contribute to.
I think a monster book would make a terrific stopgap, by the way. We've got so many awesome ones we could flesh out.
EDIT:
Now I think about it, you wouldn't necessarily have to sort the hexes by number. 'Homes of the Lords Sanguine' would make a great heading under which you could put some hexes.
Also, to explain what I left in a hex and what I pulled out, basically if I thought you'd only need the information if you were reading the hex, I left it in the hex. If I thought it was general information you'd need if you were running something in Gore, I put it in the regional description. If I thought it was info you'd need if you were running something anywhere in the Shrouded Lands, I put it in the appendices.
I personally wouldn't get use out of a document with more traditional and concise hex entries, but others might of course.
I don't think player side documents would hurt either. One thing I was thinking is that GMs (or us) could compile player's guides around particular campaigns. So if you're running a game about the Hoard plotting to drive the orcs out of the North, you'd cut-and-paste content relating to that into a new document, remove the secrets, etc.
I'm a bit wary that writing up a region in 'gazetteer' format might 'fix' that region in place, instead of encouraging people to build on it. One thing I like about the player's guides is that there's clearly so much more out there that you don't know, and that you can contribute to.
I think a monster book would make a terrific stopgap, by the way. We've got so many awesome ones we could flesh out.
EDIT:
Now I think about it, you wouldn't necessarily have to sort the hexes by number. 'Homes of the Lords Sanguine' would make a great heading under which you could put some hexes.
Also, to explain what I left in a hex and what I pulled out, basically if I thought you'd only need the information if you were reading the hex, I left it in the hex. If I thought it was general information you'd need if you were running something in Gore, I put it in the regional description. If I thought it was info you'd need if you were running something anywhere in the Shrouded Lands, I put it in the appendices.
Daztur
Hero
Sanglorian:
The main reason I’m thinking gazetteers is to get people over “gaak! It’s longer than Moby Dick! I don’t have time to read THAT, I’ll NEVER use all of that in my campaign!” shock because, well, we’re going to hit Moby Dick word count soon. Something like, say, a 64-page doc on an enchanted elf forest might be easier for people to swallow.
As far as locking stuff in place just keep the main document trucking for everything (using more of less the format you use for the Gore one see below) and cleave some gazetteers off it every so often. When they’re all done circle back to the beginning to add updated stuff. They’d also have stuff our current compilation is missing like random encounter tables.
Impressions reading through your version of Gore:
-Table of contents for hexes at the beginning of each region or all in the beginning of the book? Note that page numbers would have to be redone with every update as adding even a page throws all the numbers off.
-I like the ADDED and CHANGED notations.
-Instead of yanking out the Sir Theanor hex entirely and similar stuff, maybe reduce it to a stub and link that stub to the main chunk of content?
-Looking over the Flying Fish entry it’s hard to tell what’s the best way of organizing stuff in Shuttered itself. A lot of stuff is backstory that can get stuck in a “stories of Shuttered” entry but even that bit describes something that’s still in the city (some of the fish are still there). Hmmmm…
-OK, I like how you’ve yanked famous people and whatnot out of the hexes and put them in their own place. I’d probably put things in a slightly different order but what I’m in agreement here about what you’re doing. It puts some important things front and center.
-One big general issue. Right now all connections are done by noting the hex that someone is mentioned in. That means that noting the connections is really easy but it means that things are a bit disorganized (important information essential to understanding a region is buried in the middle of a random hex). Once we yank bits of stuff out of hexes how to note these connections? For example if Lady Natala is one of the Sanguine Lords and one of the other hexes mentions Lady Natala how do we direct people to the Lady Natala entry that’s part of the Sanguine Lords list? For stuff in the Gore region that doesn’t matter too much since people should read the general stuff (which includes her) before diving into the specific stuff, but what about mentions of her in the Thring write-up? We could have a bunch of notations like see G1.02 (meaning something like the region is Gore and it’s the second entry in the first part of the Gore overview) but that sort of thing could get opaque pretty fast. Similarly with hex notations it’s pretty easy to jump to another hex using Word (just search Hex XX.XX and you’ll get there immediately) but those kind of searches take a while to run with the PDF file, but having people DL the doc file is a pain since it’s so big (150 megs now due to all the art which Word doesn’t compress) and has non-standard fonts. So maybe go through everything and add cross-reference links. Basically make all mentions of “Lady Natala” a link and when you click them the PDF sends you to that section. I’ve never done this before but poking through word I can do it with the “bookmark” and “Cross-reference” features. Seems simple enough. Let’s see if it works after I convert this to PDF…
Yup, still works. I guess put in standard blue font with an underline for links and make it so that any time you click on a hex number you get sent there. Hmmmm, if we’re going to note connections by using links instead of having people search for them (is more user friendly) do we want to note connections with the names of the hex things connect to or the hex number, in either case people can look ‘em up by clicking on the link.
Hmmmmm, if we’re linking everything to everything else anyway, maybe just port everything to a wiki using the same basic format you’re using here. It makes it easier to people to collaborate and might be more user-friendly than one big document? For example there could be one page for “orcs” with a bunch of links to everything that mentions orcs and a bunch of different index pages for finding things. The main downside of that (aside from the work of converting it which we should do now rather than later if we're going through all of the effort to convert the format ANYWAY) is that you can't get on it while not online.
Thoughts?
The main reason I’m thinking gazetteers is to get people over “gaak! It’s longer than Moby Dick! I don’t have time to read THAT, I’ll NEVER use all of that in my campaign!” shock because, well, we’re going to hit Moby Dick word count soon. Something like, say, a 64-page doc on an enchanted elf forest might be easier for people to swallow.
As far as locking stuff in place just keep the main document trucking for everything (using more of less the format you use for the Gore one see below) and cleave some gazetteers off it every so often. When they’re all done circle back to the beginning to add updated stuff. They’d also have stuff our current compilation is missing like random encounter tables.
Impressions reading through your version of Gore:
-Table of contents for hexes at the beginning of each region or all in the beginning of the book? Note that page numbers would have to be redone with every update as adding even a page throws all the numbers off.
-I like the ADDED and CHANGED notations.
-Instead of yanking out the Sir Theanor hex entirely and similar stuff, maybe reduce it to a stub and link that stub to the main chunk of content?
-Looking over the Flying Fish entry it’s hard to tell what’s the best way of organizing stuff in Shuttered itself. A lot of stuff is backstory that can get stuck in a “stories of Shuttered” entry but even that bit describes something that’s still in the city (some of the fish are still there). Hmmmm…
-OK, I like how you’ve yanked famous people and whatnot out of the hexes and put them in their own place. I’d probably put things in a slightly different order but what I’m in agreement here about what you’re doing. It puts some important things front and center.
-One big general issue. Right now all connections are done by noting the hex that someone is mentioned in. That means that noting the connections is really easy but it means that things are a bit disorganized (important information essential to understanding a region is buried in the middle of a random hex). Once we yank bits of stuff out of hexes how to note these connections? For example if Lady Natala is one of the Sanguine Lords and one of the other hexes mentions Lady Natala how do we direct people to the Lady Natala entry that’s part of the Sanguine Lords list? For stuff in the Gore region that doesn’t matter too much since people should read the general stuff (which includes her) before diving into the specific stuff, but what about mentions of her in the Thring write-up? We could have a bunch of notations like see G1.02 (meaning something like the region is Gore and it’s the second entry in the first part of the Gore overview) but that sort of thing could get opaque pretty fast. Similarly with hex notations it’s pretty easy to jump to another hex using Word (just search Hex XX.XX and you’ll get there immediately) but those kind of searches take a while to run with the PDF file, but having people DL the doc file is a pain since it’s so big (150 megs now due to all the art which Word doesn’t compress) and has non-standard fonts. So maybe go through everything and add cross-reference links. Basically make all mentions of “Lady Natala” a link and when you click them the PDF sends you to that section. I’ve never done this before but poking through word I can do it with the “bookmark” and “Cross-reference” features. Seems simple enough. Let’s see if it works after I convert this to PDF…
Yup, still works. I guess put in standard blue font with an underline for links and make it so that any time you click on a hex number you get sent there. Hmmmm, if we’re going to note connections by using links instead of having people search for them (is more user friendly) do we want to note connections with the names of the hex things connect to or the hex number, in either case people can look ‘em up by clicking on the link.
Hmmmmm, if we’re linking everything to everything else anyway, maybe just port everything to a wiki using the same basic format you’re using here. It makes it easier to people to collaborate and might be more user-friendly than one big document? For example there could be one page for “orcs” with a bunch of links to everything that mentions orcs and a bunch of different index pages for finding things. The main downside of that (aside from the work of converting it which we should do now rather than later if we're going through all of the effort to convert the format ANYWAY) is that you can't get on it while not online.
Thoughts?
Sanglorian
Adventurer
The Last Fiendslayer (Jahur)
When Shuttered's windows closed, a loosely-knit league of fiendslayers were trapped in the Shrouded Lands. These hunters specialised in the slaying of demons and devils, but some considered their methods suspect – they would graft pieces of fiends to their own bodies to increase their prowess and were willing to truck with other dark powers to slay demons and devils.
After the Shuttering, left with few outsiders to hunt, the fiendslayers split. Some became conventional mercenaries, using their talents for personal gain. Others decided to fight mortal evil as well as the beings of the lower planes. Over the years, fiendslayers have died before passing on their knowledge and grafts.
The last fiendslayer drinks in The Gushing Ruby, a tavern in Jahur's blue quarter. His name is Erebus, one passed down from master to apprentice since the Shuttering. He has heard of the Temple of the Dead God (03.13) and wishes to gather a group to sack it and frustrate the aims of its high priestess.
He is in Jahur because his comrade is a Janissary who was badly damaged in a battle with an ogre. He hopes the Jahuri have the skills to repair him.
Hooks
Did the ogre survive?
What is the blue quarter?
Tell me more about The Gushing Ruby.
Where are the lost fiendish grafts?
What fiendish grafts does Erebus have?
Who is his Janissary comrade?
Are there any Jahuri keen to join Erebus?
[1] Yeah, the table of contents was an afterthought and I think it shows.
[2] Woops, that was actually to show that I'd had to rework other parts of the setting to implement my vision: in this case, making changes to the Sir Theanor hex (removing Gorean Grey stuff) and taking part of the flying fish section and putting it in the Shuttered section. So I wouldn't include any bits of those in the Hills of Gore section.
[3] I found that once I started chopping and changing these questions often (not always!) resolved themselves. I think if we started hacking up Shuttered we'd find it easier than it seems now.
[4] Yeah, the order could definitely use some work.
[5] Referencing is going to be tricky, for sure. I did think of something like your G1.02 notation, but I agree that it's clunky. I'd be reluctant to insert hyperlinks at this stage: I think the test should be whether the work's usable at the table, with additional electronic-only features if and only if we master the physical form.
I'd be really reluctant to transition to a wiki for the same reasons, and also that it'll be a lot of work.
Cheers.
When Shuttered's windows closed, a loosely-knit league of fiendslayers were trapped in the Shrouded Lands. These hunters specialised in the slaying of demons and devils, but some considered their methods suspect – they would graft pieces of fiends to their own bodies to increase their prowess and were willing to truck with other dark powers to slay demons and devils.
After the Shuttering, left with few outsiders to hunt, the fiendslayers split. Some became conventional mercenaries, using their talents for personal gain. Others decided to fight mortal evil as well as the beings of the lower planes. Over the years, fiendslayers have died before passing on their knowledge and grafts.
The last fiendslayer drinks in The Gushing Ruby, a tavern in Jahur's blue quarter. His name is Erebus, one passed down from master to apprentice since the Shuttering. He has heard of the Temple of the Dead God (03.13) and wishes to gather a group to sack it and frustrate the aims of its high priestess.
He is in Jahur because his comrade is a Janissary who was badly damaged in a battle with an ogre. He hopes the Jahuri have the skills to repair him.
Hooks
Did the ogre survive?
What is the blue quarter?
Tell me more about The Gushing Ruby.
Where are the lost fiendish grafts?
What fiendish grafts does Erebus have?
Who is his Janissary comrade?
Are there any Jahuri keen to join Erebus?
[1] Yeah, the table of contents was an afterthought and I think it shows.
[2] Woops, that was actually to show that I'd had to rework other parts of the setting to implement my vision: in this case, making changes to the Sir Theanor hex (removing Gorean Grey stuff) and taking part of the flying fish section and putting it in the Shuttered section. So I wouldn't include any bits of those in the Hills of Gore section.
[3] I found that once I started chopping and changing these questions often (not always!) resolved themselves. I think if we started hacking up Shuttered we'd find it easier than it seems now.
[4] Yeah, the order could definitely use some work.
[5] Referencing is going to be tricky, for sure. I did think of something like your G1.02 notation, but I agree that it's clunky. I'd be reluctant to insert hyperlinks at this stage: I think the test should be whether the work's usable at the table, with additional electronic-only features if and only if we master the physical form.
I'd be really reluctant to transition to a wiki for the same reasons, and also that it'll be a lot of work.
Cheers.
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