D&D 5E Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.


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Bless is a spell that can be countered, but bardic inspiration cannot, even though the latter is magical as well. Countercharm is magic, but it's not a spell like many other protective spells, and thus it can't be counterspelled. Performance of creation from the College of Creation subclass is a very magical ability that creates something out of nothing, but it can't be counterspelled as it's not a spell. There is a spell called creation however.

Channel divinity is a magical ability that is not a spell. It can't be countered. It's just as magical and comes from the divine as the cleric's or the paladin's spells. Wrath of the Storm is a magical reaction for the Tempest domain, but it's not a spell and can't be countered. The warlock spell hellish rebuke however is a reaction spell that can be countered.

Wild shape is a magical ability that can't be countered. Polymorph and the other shapeshifting spells can be countered. Spirit totem is a magical ability of the Circle of the Shepherd subclass that summons a spirit, but it can't be counterspelled unlike spells that summon things.

You get the point? We could go on and on. 5e has been selective and inconsistent about counterspelling from the very beginning. It was never logical.
Never logical, no, and that indeed presents its own set of problems. But changing an effect from spell to not-spell for "simplicity" and so it can't be counterspelled is blatant mid-edition revisionist gamism and I don't like it.
 

Vecna broke the multiverse again, I'm betting.
You jest, but they could go right out and say that. They used to, when stuff like this happened. Now they don't explaining themselves from the perspective of the world the game is designed to let you play in.
 

Reynard

Legend
I just want to point out that the bold text isn't quite true. A CR 19 solo it a threat for 4-5PCs in the lvl10-11 range. I think a lot groups make it close to that.
Also the CR system is so broken that high CR opponents hit waaaay below their weight class, especially solo. I've seen 13th level parties successfully fight CR 25+ enemies when they can nova (which they almost always can).
 

JEB

Legend
You jest, but they could go right out and say that. They used to, when stuff like this happened. Now they don't explaining themselves from the perspective of the world the game is designed to let you play in.
Well, sort of. Die Vecna Die is the only multiverse-wide explanation for edition changes that I can recall. Every other edition transition was only explained in-universe within the Realms (Time of Troubles, Spellplague, Second Sundering). Well, that and 1E->2E Greyhawk, in Fate of Istus.

That said, I agree that it would be nice to provide some in-universe explanation for why things changed starting with Tasha's, and why VGTM and MTOF went from not-confirmed-canon to just plain non-canon. I joke about Vecna, but there is a potential explanation in Icewind Dale...
 


You jest, but they could go right out and say that. They used to, when stuff like this happened. Now they don't explaining themselves from the perspective of the world the game is designed to let you play in.
I don't know about you but I never used the switch ups mid campaign (even 3 to 3.5) so we never needed a reason for the change, it was always that way for each campagin
 

Also the CR system is so broken that high CR opponents hit waaaay below their weight class, especially solo. I've seen 13th level parties successfully fight CR 25+ enemies when they can nova (which they almost always can).
The CR system doesn't work at all... I have seen a few shadows pose a deadly threat to a 17th level party (one lucky crit to a low str build) that can have lasting effects on carrying equipment. I have also watched 9th level parties smack around CR20+ monsters.

although not my story per say, at a table in my local store there was a campaign where mind flayers were supposed to be the big bads... the game went form 0xp first to 9th level... starting around 4th the PCs were fighting flayers... but at 9th 2 out of 5 of them died to intellect devourers and the 3 tried to run... and 2 more died to traps
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Well you might be interested in hearing that they are rethinking the CR system a bit. But only a bit.

They figured out CR is a measure of DPR, and made it so that most monsters can do their gimmick while maintaining an appropriate DPR via Multiattack substitution and various other mechanics. (Most of which are similarly cheesing the action economy)

Unfortunately, DPR is still just DPR and not an indicator of true lethality. Nearly infinite intangible tactical considerations need to be taken into account, and often creatures with alternative win conditions or action denial still end up punching above their supposed weight class.
 


Never logical, no, and that indeed presents its own set of problems. But changing an effect from spell to not-spell for "simplicity" and so it can't be counterspelled is blatant mid-edition revisionist gamism and I don't like it.
Then don’t change in the middle of a campaign or whatever. The monsters are different now, do you complain about that when an edition changes?
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
How does it make sense to you then? And ignoring it is not the same thing.
Some things are spells. Other things are not, even if they're similar.

Maybe counterspell affects an unintentional back door left in each spell, or deliberately placed there by the God of Spells, or sneaked into each spell by the God of Hating Magic.

Maybe counterspell affects only things that are built around the Weave or background mana or whatever the source of magic is by disrupting the spell's connection to the source, but innate magic relies partly on the caster's own self and thus isn't disrupted.

Maybe counterspell is specifically keyed to only affect spells, and the spell's AI is too dumb to recognize non-spells.
 



Then don’t change in the middle of a campaign or whatever. The monsters are different now, do you complain about that when an edition changes?
I do, a little bit. Nearly all of my official lore is derived from 2nd edition. I played 4th ed for a year, then abandoned it after I gave it a fair chance. I enjoyed 3rd ed well enough, and was sorry to see it be replaced.

So yeah, I guess I do complain when they change monsters.
 

Some things are spells. Other things are not, even if they're similar.

Maybe counterspell affects an unintentional back door left in each spell, or deliberately placed there by the God of Spells, or sneaked into each spell by the God of Hating Magic.

Maybe counterspell affects only things that are built around the Weave or background mana or whatever the source of magic is by disrupting the spell's connection to the source, but innate magic relies partly on the caster's own self and thus isn't disrupted.

Maybe counterspell is specifically keyed to only affect spells, and the spell's AI is too dumb to recognize non-spells.
I see what you're saying, but as I mentioned above, I have a bigger issue with the mid-stream change made purely for reasons that mean nothing to me.
 



Actually a question Micah, have you used any supplements or extra player material like Xanathar’s or Tasha’s since you started playing 5e? Or any of the new monster books like Volo’s or Mordenkainen’s?
 

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