D&D 5E Let 'em live or die?

[DND_Reborn]

You can have a situation with no PC deaths that results in an irreversible defeat for the PCs.

Name one (other than the DM/ table quitting that is...).

IMO there is always a story element that will allow the adventure to continue if the DM wants it to. Heck, thinking of it that way, even death doesn't need to be the end... the DM could have the PCs "adventure" in the outer planes (or wherever you have them end up...).

 

[Guest 6801328]

Name one.

"I will allow you to drag the corpse of your pathetic friend home with you...if you give me three of your magic items. My choice."

 

[DND_Reborn]

How is this:

"I will allow you to drag the corpse of your pathetic friend home with you...if you give me three of your magic items. My choice."

anything remotely like this:

You can have a situation with no PC deaths that results in an irreversible defeat for the PCs.

 

[prabe]

Name one.

PCs fail to stop an incursion of something inimical to normal life on the world--it could be demons or star spawn or whatever. The world gets overrun with those whatevers, and cities--kingdoms or empires if you have them--are destroyed. Billions die.

But the PCs survive, because they can get to some other plane that offers at least momentary respite.

The world as the PCs knew it is gone--even if they destroy the destroyers--and it's the direct result of their failure.

That took me longer to type than to think of.

 

[Guest 6801328]

How is this:

anything remotely like this:

You don't find losing three of your favorite magic items, and slinking home with your collective tails between your legs, to be "an irreversible defeat"?

 

[DND_Reborn]

You don't find losing three of your favorite magic items, and slinking home with your collective tails between your legs, to be "an irreversible defeat"?

Um... no.

 

[Guest 6801328]

PCs fail to stop an incursion of something inimical to normal life on the world--it could be demons or star spawn or whatever. The world gets overrun with those whatevers, and cities--kingdoms or empires if you have them--are destroyed. Billions die.

But the PCs survive, because they can get to some other plane that offers at least momentary respite.

The world as the PCs knew it is gone--even if they destroy the destroyers--and it's the direct result of their failure.

That took me longer to type than to think of.

Yes. And it's easy to think of LOTS of similar scenarios where the players simply fail to achieve the goal of the adventure, with the result that something terrible happens that cannot be undone.

I was very narrowly trying to turn a PC death into an "irreversible defeat" that didn't involve the player staying dead, as simply as possible.

 

[DND_Reborn]

PCs fail to stop an incursion of something inimical to normal life on the world--it could be demons or star spawn or whatever. The world gets overrun with those whatevers, and cities--kingdoms or empires if you have them--are destroyed. Billions die.

But the PCs survive, because they can get to some other plane that offers at least momentary respite.

The world as the PCs knew it is gone--even if they destroy the destroyers--and it's the direct result of their failure.

That took me longer to type than to think of.

PCs eventually return, defeat the invading force, and restore balance. Perhaps the adventure even involves them finding a way to reverse time before the billions die.

Again, the adventure continues. Try again if you want.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Um... no.

Well, if you define irreversible defeat to mean "a PC dies" then you've got a neat little tautology going on and, no, I can't provide you an answer that will satisfy you.

 

[prabe]

Yes. And it's easy to think of LOTS of similar scenarios where the players simply fail to achieve the goal of the adventure, with the result that something terrible happens that cannot be undone.

I was very narrowly trying to turn a PC death into an "irreversible defeat" that didn't involve the player staying dead, as simply as possible.

I don't think we're disagreeing, even if the timing of my post/s relative to yours made it seem so.