Let's fix Armor of Speed without turning it into Boots of Speed...

[Anubis]

The problem with the "+7 fix" is that a single special ability bonus can't exceed +5. That would mean Armor of Speed would have to be an artifact that doesn't even have a place in current rules.

Perhaps getting rid of it is the best solution . . .

 

[CRGreathouse]

The problem with the "+7 fix" is that a single special ability bonus can't exceed +5. That would mean Armor of Speed would have to be an artifact that doesn't even have a place in current rules.

While there are no special abilities in the DMG in excess of +5, there's no rule to this effect. The only limitation is the effective +9 cap (+1 enhancement, +10 max effective bonus).

 

[EOL]

And certainly whatever caps are in place now will be gone once the ELHB comes out. Perhaps that's the problem the armor of speed is an Epic Level enchancement and we just don't have the toolset to deal with it yet.

 

[CRGreathouse]

none-enhancement bonus that's extremely stackable (I still think that's valid)

No, it's not. I'll make two points here:

* If it's stacking with armor, it's either stacking with the armor it's on (which is limited to normal AC + 3) or bracers of armor (which are limited to +8 normally, or +10 if the DM allows it). The first option gives you little protection (compared to other characters); the second option is expensive and limiting.
* It's less valuable than an armor enhancement bonus: touch attacks are 95% hits by the time you get this, so the fact that haste bonuses help there doesn't really matter, but the fact that you lose it when flat-footed does.

 

[Anubis]

DUH!

And certainly whatever caps are in place now will be gone once the ELHB comes out. Perhaps that's the problem the armor of speed is an Epic Level enchancement and we just don't have the toolset to deal with it yet.

Of course! That must be the answer! Looks like this debate is slightly preemptive, in that case . . .

Very well, I suppose we should defer further discussion of this topic until after we've all had a chance to see the Epic Level Handbook. Perhaps we'll find a fix in there somewhere.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And certainly whatever caps are in place now will be gone once the ELHB comes out. Perhaps that's the problem the armor of speed is an Epic Level enchancement and we just don't have the toolset to deal with it yet.

Have you read something to this effect? I'd be inclined to believe the caps will stay exactly the same. Epic Characters may very well have ways to create minor and major artifacts which break the rules---but they'd still be minor and major artifacts, not regular magic. How and why would the book change the way basic magic works?

 

[EOL]

Have you read something to this effect? I'd be inclined to believe the caps will stay exactly the same. Epic Characters may very well have ways to create minor and major artifacts which break the rules---but they'd still be minor and major artifacts, not regular magic. How and why would the book change the way basic magic works?

Maybe everything I've seen is a minor artifact, but I know I've seen armor bonuses above +5. And it hardly matters what the cap is if most of the epic level equipment is minor artifacts anyway.

 

[Artoomis]

No, it's not. I'll make two points here:

* If it's stacking with armor, it's either stacking with the armor it's on (which is limited to normal AC + 3) or bracers of armor (which are limited to +8 normally, or +10 if the DM allows it). The first option gives you little protection (compared to other characters); the second option is expensive and limiting.
* It's less valuable than an armor enhancement bonus: touch attacks are 95% hits by the time you get this, so the fact that haste bonuses help there doesn't really matter, but the fact that you lose it when flat-footed does.

You can have Mage Armor and it will stack. You could have this on a buckler and have minimal chance for arcane spell failure.

I don't know why you'd lose it flatfooted. It's a haste bonus, not an armor bonus.

 

[James McMurray]

* If it's stacking with armor, it's either stacking with the armor it's on (which is limited to normal AC + 3) or bracers of armor (which are limited to +8 normally, or +10 if the DM allows it). The first option gives you little protection (compared to other characters); the second option is expensive and limiting.

How so? Full Plate +5 is +13 to AC. So is Full Plate +1 of speed. The difference is that 4 of that is a dodge bonus, but you get an extra partial action every round.

* It's less valuable than an armor enhancement bonus: touch attacks are 95% hits by the time you get this, so the fact that haste bonuses help there doesn't really matter, but the fact that you lose it when flat-footed does.

How is it less useful? It at least has a chance of helping a touch attack miss. Given the low attack bonuses of most wizards, +4 to that is very useful (at least to me). And, since it stacks with any other enhancement bonus you care to add, as well as all other bonuses (including other dodge bonuses) it certainly can't be less useful, maybe just as useful, since you lose it when flat-footed.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Maybe everything I've seen is a minor artifact, but I know I've seen armor bonuses above +5. And it hardly matters what the cap is if most of the epic level equipment is minor artifacts anyway.

Perhaps. But consider the possibility that, as a minor artifact, such a suit of armor would have greater pre-requisites to create. It might require a new feat, "Craft Minor Artifact," among other things.

Most likely, I think that, like intelligent items, creating a minor artifact would alter the price of it, perhaps by adding a flat cost, perhaps by altering the creation tables themselves.

But this thread was about fixing Armor of Speed, so I'll stop my unrelated conjecture at this point and let you guys get back to business.