Let's have a quickie! The 50g Houserule.

[Rachel]

One of my favourite RPGs, Warhammer, actually starts all PCs with 3d6 gp. They do get trappings based upon their starting class but actual gold is in very short supply. No PC I can recall started with armour better than a chain shirt. Of course Warhammer is very low magic, dark fantasy where just surviving a fight with a pack of orcs would be an incredibly heroic deed that only the toughest or luckiest people could possibly do.

Have PDFs of the game, know it well and played it like once. And that once was terrible--I caught a disease and almost died! *sadness*

That game is *hard* lol. Actually, I rolled twice on the random profession charts but got two really bad results (imho) so our GM just gave up on me and said "pick something" hehehe.

 

[Rachel]

Adventurer's kit: 11gp (after taking the version with no sunrods). Whoops.

Not really. In my games the PCs acquire such things as are included in that kit very quickly early in their first game. If they don't have anything, they will get it. In one example, a ruined marketplace the PCs found themselves in their were all sorts of "salvageables" of the mundane type.

Anyway, I really don't like it as a general rule, for a few reasons

It has a very lopsided effect. The rogue, as you show, is almost unaffected. A paladin is denied a class feature. Paladins, warriors and warlords end up being unable to buy their armor + a single weapon. The iconic warrior (chainmail, shield, longsword) is impossible. Rangers can't afford leather armor and 2 longswords. Or leather armor and a long bow.

It limits flexibility. As above, rangers, warriors, warlords and paladins can't even afford to buy ONE weapon. That means they can't, for instance, buy a sword and some javelins for when the fight is at range.

It reduces any of that interest that comes from gear shopping, and eliminates the "aha!" moment. ie - the time when one looks down your equipment list, and there it is: that 10ft of chain you bought on a whim at 1st level, here to save the day!

Forget about doing anything for flavour. 10gp for a holy symbol, instead of owning a ranged weapon? Yeah, right...

Ritual casting: woot! a feat with no effect at first level (because a ritual book costs 50g, and rituals will need to be added on top of that).

I mean, I'm all for the DM crafting a scenario and limiting character creation based on that, but having a blanket rule that halves starting gold on the grounds that it's 'more fun if you don't have stuff' is a really, really bad idea.

I considered all this as well as the responses of everyone else on this topic and reached a decision. (See next post, plz).

 

[Rachel]

I have gotten some great feedback and have made a decision.

The amount of starting gold will *still* be lowered. However, 50g is far too drastic. I see this now very clearly. Also, I don't prefer a system where each class has a different starting gold value (considered).

So I am going to decrease gold to 75g. Split the difference!

One main consideration was that certain classes, if they can't start fully armored, are clearly disadvantaged b/c their AC just won't be where it should be when factored against other classes. AC has been factored into the balance of the classes, and I can't allow that to be thrown off. This was the big turning point in my thinking.

So it will be 75g. Still can't get *everything*, but not hampering anyone.

Thanx to everyone for their thoughts and ideas!

 

[Amaroq]

Not really. In my games the PCs acquire such things as are included in that kit very quickly early in their first game. If they don't have anything, they will get it. In one example, a ruined marketplace the PCs found themselves in their were all sorts of "salvageables" of the mundane type.

That, I think, is the key point - as long as

a.) The characters are able to get "appropriate" equipment fairly early on in their career, and

b.) Pre-equipment encounters are scaled down in difficulty to account for the weakened state of the party,

It isn't going to matter if you give them the film noir start: naked in a bathroom with no idea how they or the corpse got there.

 

[bardolph]

Just something really quick here. As a house rule, I start all PC's out with only [50g] to spend at initial character creation (instead of [100g]).

This eliminates the "full-armor" paladin at start, and really encourages players to be wise about how they spend their starter gold. The PCs may not have *everything* they could possibly want right from the start (with plenty o' gold to spare), but I love the challenge of squeezing in the gear I can. And if I can't yet afford it, I like looking forward to when I can!

(Okay but plz note, martial characters will be more hard-pressed to fit in what they need under the 50g limit; this, imho, is actually as should be).

If that's your style, go for it.

I think the basic assumption in 4e is that mundane equipment is easily affordable, while magic items are the coveted commodity.

By starting the PCs at a place where they're too poor to afford basic equipment, they likely will start with a "recession mentality" where they try strip every encounter to sell used weapons and armor, empty chests, tables, chairs, rugs, bags of flour... ANYTHING that will get them over the hump of being able to afford their first set of plate mail!

While this can be fun for the first couple of sessions, it can get old, and starting them with enough GP to afford the necessities will make it easier to skip this recession step and focus rather on "real" treasure that will contribute to their first magic item upgrades.

YMMV.

Also, it's not just martial characters that need to spend gold at level 1. Thieves' tools, holy symbols, rituals and reagents can serve as pretty effective money sinks as well.

 

[Starfox]

Another important distinction is how long do you plan to remain at first level? IMC, the players made second level in the first session. And gained appropriate rewards for that. Playing with their starting equipment would not have much difference. If you plan to spend five or so sessions at first level, it might be a different beast. Particularly if you expect more story encounters than combat encounters to begin with, letting the PCs gear up before they are really tested.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Not really. In my games the PCs acquire such things as are included in that kit very quickly early in their first game. If they don't have anything, they will get it. In one example, a ruined marketplace the PCs found themselves in their were all sorts of "salvageables" of the mundane type.

That's exactly what I meant when I said that I was all for the DM crafting a scenario. If you're giving the PCs what they need (or have a specific reason in mind for denying them their gear to start out, and know how to make it fun all round) then you can do anything at all with starting equipment.

I was purely approaching your question from the point of view that the equipment change would be isolated: there wouldn't be an effect to compensate for it. Because if you do compensate... well, you really can't tell what's going to happen without knowing what the entire package is like.

 

[Rachel]

More great comments.

Anyways, I am going with the -25g reduction (plus my "heirloom" perk, and easily acquired supplemental gear from the first scenario).

 

[eriktheguy]

Question sort of related:

Does anyone else here not track the mundane? I don't require my players to track food, ammo, water, where they poop, etc.
Also, if they have a wagon, I assume they have additional mundane equipment. For example, if they need a rope and grappling hook, I would never ask 'did you buy one?'
I admit that forcing players to track these things in special situations (in a desert, behind enemy lines, in a town where no one sells to them) makes for a great adventure. In general though, equipment is just tedious.
I don't bother with encumbrance either, especially when wagons get involved.

 

[Rachel]

Question sort of related:

Does anyone else here not track the mundane? I don't require my players to track food, ammo, water, where they poop, etc.
Also, if they have a wagon, I assume they have additional mundane equipment. For example, if they need a rope and grappling hook, I would never ask 'did you buy one?'
I admit that forcing players to track these things in special situations (in a desert, behind enemy lines, in a town where no one sells to them) makes for a great adventure. In general though, equipment is just tedious.
I don't bother with encumbrance either, especially when wagons get involved.

re:Encrumberance: Common sense "hand-waving" for us.
re:Tracking the mundane: We do, but it's all easily acquired/obtained (within reason). So maybe you bought the rope and hook, or scavenged it from somewhere, or someone abandoned it, or it was part of a treasure hoard you found--but chances are you do have them (or had a chance to have them).