D&D 5E Let's talk about actually *creating* high-level content.

[toucanbuzz]

There was a "reddit" post of some length awhile back about spicing up boss encounters by making the boss have "tiers." Take them down 1/4 (or 1/3, or 1/2, etc) hit points, the boss sheds all "save each round" effects and the excess damage, gains some new powers or triggers some new feature to the battle. I've begun to take this to heart during my conversion of Paizo's Kingmaker (3rd edition).

As others noted, time is key. High level players have access to so many powers that you'll need a suitable reason they can't have a "15 minute" adventuring day, rest up to full, and repeat, so as to challenge them at some point.

On the other hand, it's nice to flex muscles, and that's the challenge of high level play. D&D has done a decent job of allowing large numbers of inferior monsters to be a threat, so it's an art to make that work. Not everything need be a CR15 battle, but every battle should be meaningful at this point.

 

[robus]

Yeah, survival of the characters is a decent motivator, but put something else in peril so that if the PCs just run, bad stuff will happen to something they care about.

Yep this is how I ended my last campaign. A former PC (a player wanted to switch characters which was perfect as it gave me an NPC they had a strong connection to put in danger ) Basically they had to retrieve some maguffin and reverse the problem the NPC had caused (he had a reputation as a wildcard) or else it was curtains.

They happily went off on the epic quest, encountering a tarrasque in the process, and it was a fantastic good time.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Does anyone have what they consider to be "cool monster synergy encounters?"

For example, Will-o-Wisps have great synergy with Banshees since a Banshee's wail can instantly drop a player and a Will-o-Wisp can basically finish them off quickly.

One thing I don't see used often are mounts. The ability for the enemy to get in and out, with the mount using their action to disengage really gives a different feel to the combat.

Doing something like creating an illusory battlefield, then having blind creatures like grimlocks or other creatures that don't rely on sight could be really interesting.

Any time you can utilize a creature that is immune to something devastating other creatures can do. Like undead with a creature that can spew poison clouds, or the oozes and acid.

Thinking about it though, there aren't a lot of specific monster synergies, creature A putting out something that allows creature B to be far more effective. Might be something you have to homebrew in

 

[LordEntrails]

Challenging high level encounters have never been a challenge to me. There is always something with more powers and hit points etc. What is challenging to me is plot.

How to make an interesting high-level campaign. How do you get the players interested in something greater than themselves? Then how to turn that into a campaign?

I'm struggling with this now. My party is finishing up Divine Contention and they will probably be 11th level. I will have some leads with Ebondeath, the Cassalanters, and Xanathar and the Undermountain. But since the party wants to play to 20th level, I'm wondering just how much that is going to take.

 

[Asisreo]

How do you get the players interested in something greater than themselves? Then how to turn that into a campaign?

Realistically, nobody cares about anything unless whatever it is actually provides tangible benefits for them.

You wouldn't care about your parents if they never fed, clothed, or sheltered you so why would the players feel that way about fantasy stuff?

To get people to care about something, you should show that the something cares about them enough to help them when they need it. If you want to show that the church cares about the cleric character, have them receive certain benefits when they help out. Something like providing spell scrolls of healing word or, when they show true piety, scrolls of revivify.

If you want the knight to care about the princess, have the princess provide the knight with land.

And though it sounds like I'm suggesting it to be transactional, it actually shouldn't. The church should provide the scrolls as gifts, not rewards. Same thing for the princess and land. Because if its purely transactional, its more of a business than a connection.

 

[pogre]

Challenging high level encounters have never been a challenge to me. There is always something with more powers and hit points etc. What is challenging to me is plot.

Totally agree. My players enjoy playing through to 20th level. Plot momentum for the campaign can be my biggest struggle. The solution for me has been lots more politics. That, of course, becomes quite campaign and character specific, but generally having PCs attached to a faction or even entire nation has worked well.

In one campaign I have a high level PC trying to help independent city-states resist the push for an Athens-like Delian Empire. Most of the pressure is coming in the form of trade barriers and food supply - making the usual solution of find the problem and kill it less viable.

In another campaign, a paladin is caught up in court intrigue and an emperor who is falling under evil influences. He was forced by noble-obligations into a political marriage and has learned that his otherwise innocent, and unknowing wife was likely sired by Titivilus. Every move he makes for largely altruistic reasons has seemed somehow to further Titivilus's schemes and it is driving him crazy.

The amount of direct player input on the high level adventures has gone way up. I often ask them - what are your goals and what are some obstacles you foresee. I have developed an absolute level of trust with my players that allow me as the DM to put them in tough moral positions and keep the enjoyment level of the game high.

 

[Flamestrike]

The tricky thing, though, is that the lair is full of acidic lakes which the dragon swim in. The acidic lake heavily obscures whoever is in it and it does 10d10 damage per round to whoever is in it. Did I mention that the lair is actually located in the Plane of Water? Because it is and has various Antimagic and Wildmagic zones scattered about.

I'd be really (really) cautious about using anti-magic as the 'solution' to high level play.

Where so many DMs fail is they stop DMing at mid levels, pretty much right at the end of a session where PC use recently minted abilities (that the DM has little experience with) to steamroll one of his encounters (or an entire adventure) with relative ease.

The DM then rage-quits and the campaign ends.

Accordingly, the DM now has no experience with mid level play.

Every DM knows levels 1-5 and what to expect, The spells, basic abilities, class features etc. But few have much experience actually running a campaign to high level, due to the above.

My advice to DMs is always the same. Dont give up. Make your mistakes. Embrace having your encounter wrecked from time to time. Get experience with high level play, so you become a better DM and know how to run such games better.

 

[fearsomepirate]

You can follow the KISS principle and still have a reasonably challenging encounter that prevents the party from waltzing in and going nova. The main thing to think about is designing the lair around the monster such that if the party tries to just sit there and mindlessly dish out damage, they're all going to die. You don't need tons of zones and ability-neutralizing things. Here's how I'd do an adult dragon (whom we've given acid immunity):


Quick sketch of the above-ground part of the lair (embellish to taste):

The pools are connected by an underground network of passages. They additionally have a layer of mist above them, allowing the dragon to stay hidden as he peeks above the surface to surveil the party. The cave is dark, giving the party -5 to passive perception. The dragon's main tactic is to Hide, peek above the surface of a pool, use his breath attack on whichever branch he figures will hurt the party the worst, and dive back down beneath the surface, where he waits for his breath to recharge. Following the rules for hidden combat, Readied actions are resolved after applying damage except in the event the dragon fails his Hide. Wizards who Ready spells may, therefore find their concentration broken by the breath weapon.

Once the dragon is below half health, he retreats to his main cave, where he quaffs a couple healing potions from his hoard, hides somewhere, and waits for the party. If the party retreats, he vacates the premises, taking the best treasure with him but leaving behind some consolation prizes.

You can see here if the party uses low-level tactics, they will get their asses handed to them. I'm sure people used to playing high-level casters have all sorts of awesome stuff they can do to win this, and that's the point. Make them do their awesome stuff instead of just spewing out Disintegrate a bunch.

 

[Stalker0]

My advice to DMs is always the same. Dont give up. Make your mistakes. Embrace having your encounter wrecked from time to time. Get experience with high level play, so you become a better DM and know how to run such games better.

Yep, I am always inspired by Xanatos from the Disney cartoon gargoyles. For those who don't know, David Xanatos is one of the greatest cartoon villains of all time....because....he actually wins at the end! By the end he is one of the most powerful men on the planet, he has a smoking hot wife, a new baby boy, and his hated enemies (the gargoyles) and the world now see him as a hero.

He is know for the "Xanatos Gambit", effectively he puts his enemy in a scenario where they have to make a choice....and no matter what they choose he has set up his plans to benefit himself.

In high levels I do this a lot. Villains who are expecting high level adventures don't set up encounters to "kill" the adventures....that's way too hard. Its more, how can I deflect them, or use them for my purposes?

One of my best moves of all time, the villain set up a "super deadly" encounter for the heroes to protect his lair (which was actually one of several lairs he had). The heroes won of course, and started looking through his lair. In it, they found an extremely well hidden and super secret book with a nigh unbreakable code....which they proceed to crack of course.

But the trick was, the Villain knew these heroes, and knew that they had some of the greatest investigative minds on the planet. No secret could be kept from them....so he didn't really both to try. He just made it convincing enough for them to think he had.

The book was a complete red herring, and led the heroes away from where the villain needed to work...buying him time for the next phase of his master plan.

So if the trap had killed them....great! But if it didn't, it still moved the heroes where the villain wanted them to go. A win win for the villain!

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yep, I am always inspired by Xanatos from the Disney cartoon gargoyles. For those who don't know, David Xanatos is one of the greatest cartoon villains of all time....because....he actually wins at the end! By the end he is one of the most powerful men on the planet, he has a smoking hot wife, a new baby boy, and his hated enemies (the gargoyles) and the world now see him as a hero.

He is know for the "Xanatos Gambit", effectively he puts his enemy in a scenario where they have to make a choice....and no matter what they choose he has set up his plans to benefit himself.

In high levels I do this a lot. Villains who are expecting high level adventures don't set up encounters to "kill" the adventures....that's way too hard. Its more, how can I deflect them, or use them for my purposes?

One of my best moves of all time, the villain set up a "super deadly" encounter for the heroes to protect his lair (which was actually one of several lairs he had). The heroes won of course, and started looking through his lair. In it, they found an extremely well hidden and super secret book with a nigh unbreakable code....which they proceed to crack of course.

But the trick was, the Villain knew these heroes, and knew that they had some of the greatest investigative minds on the planet. No secret could be kept from them....so he didn't really both to try. He just made it convincing enough for them to think he had.

The book was a complete red herring, and led the heroes away from where the villain needed to work...buying him time for the next phase of his master plan.

So if the trap had killed them....great! But if it didn't, it still moved the heroes where the villain wanted them to go. A win win for the villain!

Unfortunately, an overuse of this strategy has it's own problem, making the players feel like they are never accomplishing anything.

Don't forget, even Xanatos lost (the werewolf wife incident) or had to settle for a lot less than he actually wanted. Make sure that while the villain is still "winning" the players don't feel like they are just caught in an endless cycle of losing until you let them win.